After Nibbana you still need samadhi (?)

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    • #33318

      I can actually relate to that, once you get understanding and first get into real Dhamma, many people attained relief but then things go down again (certain things stay with you or a certain feeling of relief but it’s covered) and again you go thru Path, still again there is uplifting experience with clarity of understanding and it goes back down again. After that I felt discouraged about real Dhamma in the sense I do not have doubt but I do not think it brings the results one can feel (like permanent niramisa sukha from the start). I started doing some digging and practiced more samadhi oriented practices with understanding, once my mind touched samadhi my body felt so much relief from suffering and fatigue like there were almost no body or like my body was made of air, it stays with me a couple of hours even without doing any effort or having thoughts or not having thoughts, it was super deep niveema – but it turned back again. It seems that there is need to make more practical aspects on how to actually fully experience Nibbana because I started to doubt that simple understanding will be enough to one be constantly immersed in it. When I figure it out I will try to post how to achieve that.

    • #33322

      1. Samma Samadhi is the eighth is the 8th step in the Noble Path.

      – When one starts with Samma Ditthi (by comprehending Noble Truths/Tilakkhna/Paticca Samuppada) to some extent, one starts on the Noble Path as a Sotapanna Anugami.

      – When the path is cultivated (with all eight steps), one gradually cultivates Samma Samadhi. At various stages, one is elevated to higher stages (Atthapurisa puggala).

      – When Samma Samadhi is complete at the Arahant Magga/Phala stage, one goes through two more steps (Samma Nana and Samma Vimutti) and becomes an Arahant.

      – After getting to the Arahant stage, the Path is complete and there is no need to cultivate samadhi. However, that Arahant phala citta is not experienced at all times.

      2. Therefore, even an Arahant is not in that type of “ultimate samadhi” at all times.
      – I think that is what is referred to in the quote by Ven. Sayadaw in Christian’s post.
      – The Arahant phala moment comes and goes.
      – But an Arahant can get back to Arahant phala samapatti at later times. Only then is an Arahant can get back to the Aranaht phala citta.

      3. There are many types of samadhi: “What is Samādhi? – Three Kinds of Mindfulness
      – Samadhi normally means getting into a “calm and concentrated state of mind.”
      – There are “bad” or “miccha” samadhi as well, as discussed in that post.

      4. Finally, samadhi is also different from jhana: “Samādhi, Jhāna, Magga Phala – Introduction

      5. One way to think about this as follows:
      – A glass of water can look clean from the top with some mud deposited at the bottom. That can be compared to the calm mind of an average person when five hindrances do not disturb the mind (for example, when concentrating n breath).
      – However, if a strong arammana (say, thoughts about an enemy) comes to the mind, that mind will be agitated. That is like stirring that glass of water with a stirrer.
      – I discussed that example in #11 through #13 in “What Are Kilesa (Mental Impurities)? – Connection to Cetasika

      We can discuss this further if needed. But those are the key points.

    • #33380
      Tobias G

      As long as we live in this world there is contact with rupa. That contact triggers sanna and vedana (manosankhara). We cannot avoid or reduce contact, only when sleeping or in samadhi. But life is not samadhi alone.

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