4 human worlds?

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  • This topic has 6 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by Lal.
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    • #35056
      Aniduan
      Participant

      In this desana, Thero mentions there are 4 human worlds: Man’s quest for happiness

      The comment about 4 human worlds starts around 9 min 15 secs into the desana.

      Just curious to know what it is about. I googled it but couldn’t find anything related to 4 human worlds. Anyone has any insight into this?

    • #35057
      DanielSt
      Participant

      Lal wrote something about it here:

      Jambūdīpa – what it really means

      There he wrote:
      “There are four “dīpās” inhabited by humans centered on the Earth (in bold in the above paragraph). Jambudīpa is just one and it includes all the countries, not only India and Sri Lanka.
      The other three “dīpās”, we cannot see. They exist around the Earth, but are invisible to us, just like deva and brahma realms are also invisible.”

    • #35058
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thanks, Daniel.

      I am not sure whether I referred to a relevant sutta there. The following sutta describes that there are a thousand world-systems of which ours (Earth-based life) in just one. Furthermore, there are an uncountable number of such “clusters.”
      Paṭhamakosala Sutta (AN 10.29)
      – “..sahassaṁ jambudīpānaṁ sahassaṁ aparagoyānānaṁ sahassaṁ uttarakurūnaṁ sahassaṁ pubbavidehānaṁ” refer to those 4 human abodes within ours. Of course, we can see only the jambudīpā or this Earth. This also confirms that jambudīpā is NOT India or Sri Lanka. It includes all countries where humans live (those we can see).
      – A reasonable translation there: “Kosala (1)

      Different Buddhas are born in different clusters. This is why the Buddha said this kind of analysis is unthinkable for average humans. See, “Acinteyya Sutta (AN 4.77)“.
      – A reasonable translation there: “Unconjecturable

    • #35059
      DanielSt
      Participant

      Lal, do you have a proof for the following statement you made:

      “However, a Buddha is born only in our world system (within the 1,000 world systems), i.e., only in our Jambudīpa.”

      This is from the other forum discussion that I linked in my last comment.

      So if I understand correctly:
      In the other “999” world systems (solar systems) there are humans with these 4 categories as well (Jambudīpa being one lf them), but there, a Buddha never arises. Only in ours. Or can a Buddha not also arise in their Jambudīpa?

      If not, why so asymmetric? What makes our solar system so special?

    • #35065
      Lal
      Keymaster

      No. I don’t recall where I got that information. But I am sure it exists in the Tipitaka because it is either something I heard from Waharaka Thero or I saw it somewhere in the Tipitaka.
      – If someone knows, please post.

      Anyway, it is not worthwhile to spend time on these aspects to great extent. Of course, these have the benefit of enhancing saddha. But there is the issue of time too!
      – Time is better spent on learning Dhamma concepts.

    • #35075
      TripleGemStudent
      Participant

      In regards to the Buddha that only arise in Jambudipa. Over a year ago, I read a book called The Buddhist Cosmos

      I remembered reading that only Buddha’s are born in Jambudipa from the book, so I went back to it and quickly scanned over it and here’s what I found.

      It mentions in the book:

      “On the other hand, the humans of Jambudipa surpass those of Uttarakuru and the Tavatimsa devas in the three qualities of;

      Sura – Heroism

      Satimant – Mindfulness. In the deva worlds there is only happiness and in niraya only misery and neither of those conditions is conducive to mindfulness; only among the humans of Jambudipa is there a suitable mix of the two

      Idhabrahmacariyavasa – Here it is possible to live the holy life. As the commentary says, only in Jambudipa do Buddhas and paccekabuddhas arise, and only here it is possible to follow the eightfold path in fullness (AN-a 9:21).

      I’m not sure what source is (AN-a 9:21).

      Some other clue’s from the book.

      “The Anguttara Commentary adds a note to the effect that there are never two Buddhas existing anywhere in the universe at the same time and argues from the absence in the canon of a single mention of Buddhas in another world-system”. This is an odd and extreme position to take, and seems to obviate the need for a special “field of birth” altogether.”

      “The Tisahassimahasahassilokadhatu is cited as the extent over which the Buddha can, if he wishes extend his radiance and the sound of his voice.”

      “The majjhimadesa is the place where Buddhas, paccekabuddhas, cakkavatis and other great and noble beings are born (An-a 1:170)”

      “It is considered relatively rare to be born in the middle country, more common but less forunate to be born in the boarder countries where bhikkhus and bhikkhunis seldom travel and the dhamma is not heard (AN 8:29)”

      “Although it is the rule that only cakkavatti can arise in a world-system at any given time (AN 1: 278)”

      Hope this helps.

      I’m very hesitant to mention about this, but since I’m already mentioning about the book and seeing Lal mention about something, I thought I would say a little of something . . .

      Lal mentioned: “But there is the issue of time too! – Time is better spent on learning Dhamma concepts”

      Over a year ago when I was reading the book that’s mentioned at the beginning of this post. Something really really resonated with me.

      – “There will come a time when the lifespan of humans is just ten years. Amongst these people, girls will reach the age of marriage at five years old. Among the people with a lifespan of ten years the flavours of butter, ghee, oil, honey, treacle, and salt will have disappeared. Among them, the kudrusaka grain will be the chief foods, just as rice and meat are today.

      Among the people with ten year lifespans, the ten ways of right conduct will have completely disappeared and the ten ways of wrong conduct will prevail. Among them, the word kusala (“moral”, lit. “skillful”) will not exist, so how could moral actions exist? Among the people with ten year lifespans, there will be no (respect for) mother or father or samanas or brahmins, nor for the elders of the clan. Now those who do show such respect are considered praiseworth, in that time it will be considered praiseworthy to lack respect for mother and father.

      Among the people with ten year lifespans no account will be taken of mother, aunt, mother-in-law, teachers wife or other such revered women. The entire world will go together in confusion, like goats or pigs or cocks or dogs or jackals. (The sub-commentary makes the meaning clear; they will take their own mothers and so forth “as if they were their wives”). Among the people with ten year lifespans, fierece animosity, anger and hatred will arise. They will have the minds of killers. Between mother and son, between father and son, between brother and sister, fierce animosity, anger and hatred will arise. Just as when a hunter sees his prey, they will have the minds of killers.

      And among those people there will come to be a seven day “sword time” (sattha-antarakappa). They will perceive one another as if they were wild beast. Sharp swords will appear in their hands (the commentary explains that anything they hold in their hands, even a blade of grass, will turn into a weapon). Taking the swords, and crying out, “There is a beast! There is a beast!” they will slay one another.” (DN26)

      I have always thought that one of my strengths is observation. We also come from different backgrounds and paths that leads us to the dhamma. Based on my own observation and what I have learned before and after coming across the dhamma. I’m seeing many current worldly events / situations playing out and have observed the current humanity decline in moral value’s and intellect that I believe would eventually lead humanity to such an outcome mentioned above.

      I actually wrote a little bit more details what I mentioned above and about this “time issue” but decided to delete it. If there is a “time issue”, it’s even more significant now then ever before. Many of us really don’t have much time left in our current lives and even if we do have “some” time, decay and illness and worldly difficult circumstances are coming faster to us (humanity on this planet) then ever before.

      May we all use our remaining time wisely and may we all the living beings attain the supreme bliss of Nibbana as soon as possible.

    • #35078
      Lal
      Keymaster

      “I’m not sure what source is (AN-a 9:21).”

      It is ” Tiṭhāna Sutta (AN 9.21)

      English trnslation there: “21. In Three Particulars
      – Note that Jambudipa” is incorrectly translated as, “India” there.

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