Reply To: arupa loka


Hallo… Lal and TripleGemStudent, Saket

#44552 Where?
I don’t know for sure either, maybe in the comments. But I know,Kamma Bija is a term that means kamma seed or kammic potential. It is the energy or potential to bring about an effect in the future due to a kamma (volitional action) that was committed in the past. Kamma Bija is not a physical entity, but a mental phenomenon that is stored in the mind realm (mano loka). Kamma Bija can be moral or immoral, depending on the nature of the kamma that generated it.

Kamma seeds are not eternal, but they can last for a very long time, depending on the strength and nature of the kamma that generated them. Some kamma seeds can bring results only in this life or the next life, while others can bring results in future lives until they are exhausted or nullified by other kamma seeds. The Abhidhamma Pitaka, which is a part of the Buddhist Pali Canon that provides a systematic and philosophical explanation of the teachings of the Buddha, does not give a specific time for when kamma seeds lose their effect, but it classifies kamma into four types by time of ripening: 

  •  immediately effective (ditthadhammavedaniya)
  • subsequently effective (upapajjavedaniya)
  • indefinitely effective (aparapariyavedaniya)
  • and ineffective (ahosi) kamma.

or see Links #44553


Arupa Loka and Hadaya Vatthu

Hadaya Vatthu is a term meaning the seat of the mind or heart base. It is a type of rupa (material form) that resides in the physical heart and serves as the basis for all types of consciousness (citta) except for the five sense consciousnesses (eye, ear, nose, tongue, body) which are their own Having bases (pasada rupa) in the corresponding sense organs. 
Hadaya vatthu is considered rupa because it is a physical phenomenon that arises and ceases due to various causes such as kamma, citta, utu (temperature) and ahara (food). It is not the same as the physical heart, but it is closely related. 

Hadaya Vatthu is one of the 28 types of Rupa classified in the Abhidhamma
Hadaya Vatthu is present only in the worlds where there is rupa, not in the arupa loka (immaterial worlds). According to the Abhidhamma, there are five arupa loka in which Hadaya Vatthu is not present: Arupa loka is the world of immaterial beings composed only of citta and cetasika (mental factors), without rupa (material form). There are five Arupa Loka corresponding to the five Arupa Jhanas.

  • Akasanancayatana: the world of infinite space perception
  • Vinnanancayatana: the world of infinite consciousness perception
  • Akincannayatana: the world of nothingness perception
  • N’evanasannanasannayatana: the world of neither perception nor non-perception
  • Asannasatta: the world of unconscious beings

In these worlds, there are only 12 types of Citta: four are jhanic moral Citta, arising from the practice of Arupa Jhanas, and four are vipaka Citta, arising from the result of these Jhanas. The other four are bhavanga Citta, representing the base state of the mind. These Citta are very subtle and pure, but not liberating. To attain Nibbana, one has to come out of Arupa Loka and attain the four stages of Magga Phala.

I take an example here, Asannasatta in Arupa Loka where there is no Hadaya Vatthu. To get there, one would have to attain the 4th Jhana with Citta viraga Bhavana, which is done without panna (wisdom). The generated Kamma energy leads to Arupa-Jhanas. It is a detachment from consciousness.

Citta viraga Bhavana is a type of meditation that aims to free the consciousness (citta) from attachment (raga). It is a form of insight meditation (vipassana) that contemplates the three characteristics of existence (anicca, dukkha, anatta) and realizes the true nature of all phenomena. Citta viraga Bhavana helps to see the Lakkana of all conditioned things and thereby overcome greed (lobha), hatred (dosa) and ignorance (moha), which are the causes of suffering. Citta viraga Bhavana leads to wisdom (panna), purity (visuddhi) and liberation (nibbana).

In Asannasatta one is without consciousness (like in a coma) but still has Bhavatanha. It is called an existence without Nama and lasts as long as the Kamma energy is exhausted. So without Citta, Cetasika, Gati and cannot trigger Anusaya. It is a Bhavanga state of mind formed in the Patisandhi moment that does not trigger Citta. So one cannot make any statement about the presence of Gati, Anusaya there but only say it is not triggered. In this realm one is only held by Bhavatanha. And Dhamma could be seen as the natural law of the world with its 31 realms.

Bhavata manga is a Pali term that literally means “the striving for existence”. It is a form of bhava tanha, the attachment to existence or becoming. It is one of the causes of suffering (dukkha) in Theravada, as it maintains the cycle of rebirth (samsara). In Abhidhamma, bhavata manga is a type of cetasika (mental factor) that arises with and influences the consciousness (citta). It is one of the four types of abhisankhara (volitional formations) caused by ignorance (avijja). It is also one of the ten types of anusaya (latent tendencies) mentioned in the Dhammasangani, one of the books of the Abhidhamma-Pitaka.

Gati/Gathi are the saṁsāric habits or tendencies of a being, shaped by his kammic tendencies (anusaya) and attachments (āsava). Gati determine the way a being reacts to different situations, and influence his moral or immoral actions (kamma). Gati are also associated with the cetasika (mental factors) that arise in each thought (citta). The cetasika can be good (sobhana), bad (asobhana) or neutral, depending on whether they are connected with wisdom (paññā) or ignorance (avijjā). Gati are thus the deeply rooted habits that shape our thoughts and deeds. They can change over time, if one makes an effort to overcome the bad gati and cultivate the good gati. The liberation from all gati that do not lead to Nibbana is the way.

Anusaya are latent tendencies or dispositions, regarded as one of the sources of impurities (kilesa). They are defilements that lie “along with” (anusenti) the mental process to which they belong, and arise as obsession whenever they meet with suitable conditions. There are seven types of anusaya: sensuality (kama), existence (bhava), non-existence (vibhava), view (ditthi), doubt (vicikiccha), conceit (mana) and ignorance (avijja). Anusaya is also discussed in relation to other concepts such as kamma, paticcasamuppada, citta and cetasika. The substratum or basis of anusaya is the bhavanga citta, which represents the base state of the mind. The bhavanga citta is the result of the kamma citta that arose at the end of the previous life. It is the citta that flows during sleep or between the perceptions of sense objects. It is also the citta that ceases at the end of the present life.

Appatigha rupa is a type of rupa (material form). It means the form that cannot be touched or the form that does not collide with other forms. It is one of the 16 types of sukhuma rupa (fine form), which are different from the 12 types of olarika rupa (gross form). The sukhuma rupa are also anupadinna rupa (non-appropriated form), which are different from the 18 types of upadinna rupa (appropriated form). Appatigha rupa are the finest external forms, which can only be perceived by the mind (mana), not by the five physical senses (eye, ear, nose, tongue, body). They are also called dhamma, because they only exist as mental objects. Appatigha rupa are also anidassana rupa (invisible form), because they do not reflect or absorb light. Appatigha rupa are the forms that exist in the arupa loka (immaterial worlds), where there is only consciousness and mental factors, but no material form.

Citta is thus called consciousness and consciousness is not localizable in the infinite invisible space, not even in the Arupa Loka. It has no location in the immaterial Loka. It pervades space at the lowest level. I have also not been able to find in any Sutta or other scriptures that Sammasambuddha would have claimed otherwise. (Maybe in the commentaries) + (If yes please post here) Consciousness cannot be defined spatially, it is very special and depends on space. It is only assumed philosophically and during meditation in the heart region (description in Abhidhamma, visuddhimagga, etc.) and only applies to the realms with Rupa and these are Rupa Loka, Kama Loka and Apayas where a Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya) is present. (Vatthu can be found in the scriptures as well as Hadaya in the commentaries but not as Hadaya Vatthu).

To the question: #44543
So no Hadaya Vatthu in Arupa Loka.

The kamma that was generated in the last life with Citta viraga Bhavana acts in the Patisandhi moment and creates the bhavanga state in Arupa Loka.

The definition of Dhamma is missing according to which Dhamma, but there is Dhamma in Arupa Loka. Without Dhamma no universe! Gati is present just like anusaya but does not come into play.

  • In the following 2 realms only Nama exists without Rupa.
    1. Akasanancayatana: the world of infinite space perception
    2. Vinnanancayatana: the world of infinite consciousness perception
  • In the last 3 realms there is neither Nama nor Rupa but the mind is only present. Because there is still residual kamma in the form of Bhavatanha.
    3. Akincannayatana: the world of nothingness perception
    4. N’evanasannanasannayatana: the world of neither perception nor non-perception
    5. Asannasatta: the world of unconscious beings
  • So one can see that even in the last 3 realms Arahanthood is not attained. Otherwise Namarupa would not be present, it is only suppressed.

Life is Namarupa……………Nibbana is No Namarupa……

Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu…………

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