Reply To: Reference for needing Ariya for Sotapanna phala citta


Lvalio wrote: “None of this (listening to dhammā) is absolutely necessary to accomplish the state of Sotapanna!”

That is not right. My post that you referenced does not say anything like that. If I have given that impression, I need to correct it. Please quote or refer to the bullet # where I wrote that or implied that.

To attain the Sotapanna stage, one needs to see the fruitlessness of craving for worldly things. That is the anicca nature.

However, at that stage one has not yet lost the sanna (perception) that worldly cravings are not fruitful. Thus one cannot help “enjoying the worldly pleasures.”

That is sort of like a smoker who can see that smoking is bad for one’s health. That is like a Sotapanna.
– However, the smoker has not given up smoking yet. He still likes to smoke out of the old habit.

That is not a perfect analogy in the following sense.
– A Sotapanna WILL lose the cravings for sensory pleasures within a limited time. Sotapanna’s understanding is NOT reversible.
– A smoker may go back to being a smoker unless he has the WILL POWER to gradually cut down smoking.
– Sotapanna’s PERMANENT understanding WILL INEVITABLY make him/her cut down on cravings for sensory pleasures gradually.

P.S. I realized that I forgot to state the relevant point.
– A Sotapanna CANNOT get that understanding without learning the true nature of this world from a Buddha or a true disciple of the Buddha (Noble Person). Because it is a Dhamma that only a Buddha can discover. A normal human CANNOT figure that out by himself/herself, no matter how intelligent he/she is. That is the key point.