Reply To: Sotapanna information from the Sutta-pitaka

y not


As I see, your question arises because all through relevant posts, jati and bhava are shown to be synonymous in realms other than the human and animal. So how does Lal say that the king had 7 different jati in a single deva bhava? (“There are only two bhava involved here, 7 births in each bhava”). Might as well say he had 7 deva bhava, doing away with all possible misunderstanding.?

(Note” when a deva DIES…) he DOES die, so that would constitute a deva bhava. Full stop, it would appear. Therefore the next birth will be another bhava. But because the birth, and the six subsequent ones, takes place in the same realm, although’in another location’, they are said to be jati (within the same bhava).

I can see that deva as well as brahma realms will have many, many ‘locations’ fitting exactly the kamma of the beings that caused them to be ‘born’ specifically there (just like we can see happening in the human realm, for that matter).

The only explanation I can see that would reconcile how the king was ‘born’ seven times within the same deva bhava is through strong abhisankara causing his sudden appearance in another ‘location’ within that realm, i.e. that his six ‘deaths’ there were due to anantariya kamma vipaka, NOT through old age and death because the time for that deva bhava had run out.

Lal please clarify