I like to share this with you and ask for your comment.
It seems like realising Sotapanna stage in the sutta’s is expressed in different ways:
-1. arising of the spotless vision of the Dhamma, or arising spotless Dhamma-eye.
I find it remarkable that in all those places where this is mentioned (MN56§18, SN13.1, SN35.74, (DN2§102), DN3§2.21, DN5§29, DN14§3.15, DN21§2.10) the context is that someone listens to a dhamma-talk and this arising of the spotless dhamma-eye at that moment happens.
To give an example (MN, Bodhi), in MN56§18 it is said this way:
“Then the Blessed One gave the householder Upali progressive instruction, that is, talk on giving, talk on virtue, talk on the heavens; he explained the danger, degradation, and defilement in sensual pleasures and the blessing of renunciation. When he knew that the householder Upali’s mind [380] was ready, receptive,free from hindrances, elated, and confident, he expounded to him the teaching special to the Buddhas: suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path. Just as a clean cloth with all marks removed would take dye evenly, so too, while the householder Upali sat there, the spotless immaculate vision of the Dhamma arose in him: “All that is subject to arising is subject to cessation.”
So the spotless dhamma-eye sees or knows ‘all that is subject to arising is subject to cessation.”
Although not specifically mentioned in the sutta’s, according Bodhi (MN, note 588) and Walshe (DN, note 140) this refers to stream-entrence.
I wonder, do you agree?
And, what do you think it means when it is said that the spotless dhamma-eye arises which sees ‘All that is subject to arising is subject to cessation“? Does someone experience cessation at that moment? Some people say one glimpses Nibbana? What dot you think?
In what way is this insight– ‘All that is subject to arising is subject to cessation.”–such a big event, such a breaktrough? I think it cannot be some kind of intellectual understand, or? What do you think?
So what is really seen at that moment? For me this is the question.
-2. Breakthrough to the Dhamma.
To give an example (SN, Bodhi), in SN46.30 it is said:
“Then, venerable sir, while I was staying in an empty hut following along with the surge and decline of the five aggregates subject to clinging, I directly knew as it really is: ‘This is suffering’; I directly knew as it really is: ‘This is the origin of suffering’; I directly knew as it really is: ‘This is the cessation of suffering’; i directly knew as it really is: ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering.’ I have made the breakthrough to the Dhamma, venerable sir, and have obtained the path which when I have developed and cultivated it, will lead me on, while I am dwelling in the appropriate way, to such a state that I shall understand: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done’.
A breaktrough to the dhamma is also mentioned in SN22.90 and SN46.56. According Bodhi this also refers to realising Sotapanna stage (SNII, note 76 and note 116).
-3. Breaktrough to the four noble truths.
To give an example from SN56.3 (SN, Bodhi)
…”Whatever clansmen in the future will rightly go forth from the household life into homelessness, all will do so in order to make the breakthrough to the Four Noble Truths as they really are. Whatever clansmen at present have rightly gone forth from the household life into homelessness, all have done so in order to make the breakthrough to the Four Noble Truths as they really are”…
This breaktrough is mentioned in SN56.3+4, SN56.26//32/34/35/37/44/51/60.
This breaktrough is very difficult to realise. It is compared to splitting a hair in 7 pieces by an arrow (SN56.45)!
Does this still refer to Sotapanna or maybe to arhantstage?
kind regards,
Siebe