Sekha Sutta MN 53

P.S. In my first response, I had the definitions of sekha, and asekha reversed. The following is correct.
1. Question on the Sekha Sutta (MN53):

Verse 1 describes an asekha ariyasāvaka and verse2 describes a sekha ariyasāvaka.
– Sekha means “one who is on training,” i.e., someone who is on the Noble Path (i.e., above Sotapanna Anugami).
– Asekha means “one who has completed training,” i.e., an Arahant.

The verse “Yato kho, mahānāma, ariyasāvako evaṁ sīlasampanno hoti, evaṁ indriyesu guttadvāro hoti, evaṁ bhojane mattaññū hoti, evaṁ jāgariyaṁ anuyutto hoti, evaṁ sattahi saddhammehi samannāgato hoti” is explained in the “Apaṇṇaka Sutta (AN 3.16)”

2. The verses quoted from the second sutta, “Potaliya Sutta (MN 54)” compare our efforts pursuing sensual pleasures to a dog chewing on a meatless bone.
– “aṭṭhi” is a bone.
– Many suttas discuss this analogy. A dog thinks highly of a bone. It will fight other dogs to take possession of one and spends hours chewing it. It does not benefit from it and only gets tired at the end. Humans seeking sensual pleasures are no different. Such efforts only lengthen the rebirth process, where every birth ends with old age, disease, and death.
– I have discussed this in several posts: “Search Results for: aṭṭhiyati bone”
– Now, you can read the English translation in the link and get a better idea.

3. Please try to point to the place of the sutta using the format I have used (which breaks the sutta into sections/tabs). When you click on tab #, you will get the option to open the sutta at that verse in a different tab on the browser. Then use that link. I revised your links using that method.
– Also, provide the name of the sutta instead of just quoting the sutta number and make Pali verses in italics (select the Pali verse and click “i” on the Text Editor bar.)
– Spend the extra time for the benefit of others. (If the above instructions are unclear on how to open a sutta at a specific place, I can take care of it.)

1. Yes. You are correct. I had the two terms reversed. I corrected them above. Thank you.

2. “My question is whether this phrase is referring to samadhi.”

– Yes. It is.
– Samadhi can be at different levels. Samadhi comes from “sama” + “adhi” to towards a certain status.
– For example, Sotapanna has “Sotapanna samadhi.” An Arahant’s samadhi is different (higher level.)
– There are different types of miccha samadhi too. A master thief (while committing a theft) has the mindset of a thief. A murderer’s mindset is in “killer’s samadhi” during the killing, etc.

P.S.
3. It helps if the sutta number is also given, i.e., SN 1.2, etc.
– I have a sutta in the right format (with tab numbers and side-by-side English translation). For example, when there is a question on SN 1.2, I just change the sutta number in the link.
For example, the link for the Sekha Sutta (MN 53) is:
https://suttacentral.net/mn53/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=main&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin
– If I need the link for SN 1.2, I just replace “mn53” with “sn1.2”.
– You should also use that method. It saves time.
– So, please give BOTH the sutta name and the number. That way, there is no ambiguity.

“2. So can the context of this phrase be used as evidence that Buddha said samadhi, not jhana, to someone who is a layperson?”

I have explained the difference between jhana and (Samma)samadhi. Let me try to summarize.
– There can be pannavimutti Arahants who have completed Samma Samadhi without cultivating jhana. King Suddhodana is probably a good example. He is said to have attained Arahanthood close to the moment of death.
– There can be cetovimutti Arahants who get to the Arahant stage via Ariya jhana. Ven. Moggalana is an example.
– Also, there can be ubhatovimutti Arahants who had not cultivated jhana, get to the Arahant stage by pannavimutti, and simultaneously receive all jhanas and iddhi powers. Culapanthaka Thero is a good example here.
– There can be anariyas who had cultivated all four rupavacara jhanas AND the four arupavacara samapatti. They are NOT released from the apayas in future lives. However, they will be born in a Brahma realm at death. Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta are two good examples.

Samadhi and jhana are two different things.
– There can be miccha samadhi, too, as I explained above.
– In that particular sutta (Potaliya Sutta), the Buddha refers to those who attained Ariya jhana. We can say that they have both Samma Samadhi and Ariya jhana.
– But there can be Arahants who completed Samma samadhi but have not cultivated the four jhanas. But they may get to at least the first jhana at the moment of Arahanthood.
– Magga phala do not necessarily involve jhana. The sequence of getting to magga phala: Parikamma (P), Upacāra (U), Anuloma (A), Gotrabu (G), Path (magga) (Pa), and Fruit (phala) (Fr). Those are different stages of samadhi getting to the Gotrabu (change of lineage). See #14 of “Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs”

I see. The above information should be strong enough. See what their response is.