Question on PañcaUpādānaKhandha …

Your thought process is good.

But can look at it the following way too.

1. Rupa play a dominant role. For any mental entities to arise, an internal rupa must come to contact with an external rupa.
– There are six internal rupa and six external. Note that dhammā are rupa too: “What are Rūpa? – Dhammā are Rūpa too!”

2. Thoughts with “viparita (distorted) sanna” (sanna vipallasa) and “samphassa-ja-vedana” arise COULD arise due to such contacts.
– Then based on those “mind-made” sanna and vedana, vinnana (future expectations) arise and we engage in abhisankhara that lead to future rebirths and other types of vipaka.

3. When we recall past events, we recall not only the associated rupa, but also associated four types of mental entities: vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana.

4. Therefore, attachment involves all five aggregates. Thus, panca upadana khandha (pancupadanakkhandha).

What I am saying is that we cannot just focus on the rupakkhandha.
– Attachment to rupa cannot be dissociated from those mental aspects arising from the contacts among external and internal rupa.

That is why it is “panca upadana khandha” that is dukkha, not just “rupa upadana khandha.”

Lal said:
“What I am saying is that we cannot just focus on the rupakkhandha.
– Attachment to rupa cannot be dissociated from those mental aspects arising from the contacts among external and internal rupa.

That is why it is “panca upadana khandha” that is dukkha, not just “rupa upadana khandha.””

It gives me quite a lot of insight. You might want to add this to the post so that everyone else can see it.

Thanks. I will see which posts will benefit from that.
– If you have a specific post in mind, please let me know.

this post

I think it is adequate post.

Thanks. I revised #10 there:
“Five Aggregates – Experiences of Each Sentient Being“

Is it correct to think of pañcupādānakkhandhā in the following way:

pañcupādānakkhandhā is pañcakkhandha such that:

vedanākkhandha comprises samphassa ja vedanā,
saññākkhandha comprises avijja, or saññā of nicca, sukha, atta,
saṅkhārakkhandha comprises abhisaṅkhāra,
and viññāṇakkhandha comprises kamma viññāṇa.

Thank you,
Lang

That is an excellent way to put it, Lang!

Those “mental aspects/qualities” arise when a set of rupa (that once one experienced, plans to experience, or currently experience) is “kept close in one’s mind” (i.e., one has upādāna for them).

As one progresses on the Noble Path, that set will keep shrinking.
– An Arahant would not upādāna any component of rupakkhandha.
– Note that memories of past rupa in rupakkhandha experienced with the mind directly, via “manañca paṭicca dhamme ca uppajjāti manoviññāṇaṃ.” See #4 of, “Vipāka Vēdanā and “Samphassa jā Vēdanā” in a Sensory Event.”
– Understanding these details lead to getting rid of sakkāya diṭṭhi. See, “Paṭicca Samuppāda – A “Self” Exists Due to Avijjā”
– That whole process is discussed systematically in “Worldview of the Buddha.” The above two posts are part of this section.

P.S. To emphasize: All attachments start with an ārammaṇa, i.e., sensory contacts between an internal rupa and external rupa. (six types, including mana/dhamma).
– But attachment happens via all five aggregates of rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa. It is important to see the details as explained by Lang.
– That is why it is “pañca upādāna khandhā.”

sadhu sadhu sadhu! Lang has a really great insight. Everyone should be able to see this!

Yes. Lang’s description requires a good understanding of Paticca Samuppada.

You can see that most current translators of Paticca Samuppada from Pali to English do not understand these necessary detailed explanations.
– See, “Distortion of Pāli Keywords in Paṭicca Samuppāda”

They simply translate “avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā, saṅkhāra paccayā viññāṇa,” as “Ignorance is a condition for choices. Choices are a condition for consciousness.” Then they translate the Patiloma (Reverse) Paticca Samuppada of “avijjā nirodhā saṅkhāra nirodho, saṅkhāra nirodhā viññāṇa nirodho” as “When ignorance ceases, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases.”
– That does not make sense since an Arahant would still generate saṅkhāra and would still have consciousness!
– They need to explain that the niddesa version of Paticca Samuppada is, “avijjā paccayā abhisaṅkhārā, abhisaṅkhāra paccayā kammaviññāṇa,” Several other terms need to be expanded.
– Then, they need to further explain each term in detail, as I pointed out in my earlier post.

See, also, “Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa“

Just want to share a tip about learning Dhamma: my experience is that if I spell out the niddesa versions for my own notes then I grasp concepts better.

We are fortunate to have Lal elaborate the uddesa versions of various verses and terms for us, such as:

vipapka vedana vs samphassa ja vedana
Mere saṅkhāra vs abhisaṅkhāra
vipaka viññāṇa vs kamma viññāṇa
etc.

I haven’t seen this level of explanation anywhere else!

Take paticca samuppada as an example. Using Lal’s explanation of the terms, when I write out different PS cycles in niddesa forms they make a stronger impact in my mind. Hope the same is true for you.

In the following thread, I wrote out a couple of PS cycles:

Kusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada

Best,
Lang

Thank you, Lang. It is an excellent summary.