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Over the past couple of weeks, I have been following a series of desanas from Susila Thero. He is in Sri Lanka and these discourses are in Sinhala. These are excellent and provide deep insights.
– Those who understand the Sinhala language can follow these discourses at “Lowthuru Arana ලොව්තුරු අරණ”
– I will, of course, incorporate those new insights in my posts.
December 15, 2020:
The contents in the above long discourses have been separated into topics at the following website (also in Sinhala). I am not sure how well that is done. It would be nice if the authors of this website can refer to the original discourses and corresponding times there.
“දහම් ආලෝකය-Dham Alokaya“ -
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These discourses are entirely consistent with those of Waharaka Thero. But they provide some new insights.
One thing of interest is his explanation of attaining the Sotapanna stage.
We know the following:
– One becomes a Sotapanna Anugami by first hearing about the correct interpretations of Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana. All three present the same Buddha Dhamma in three different ways.
– One becomes a Sotapnna Anugami by hearing/reading about these explanations. If one really comprehends, one ‘sees” that the rebirth process is a “cause and effect” effect and that there is no “self” or a “soul” going through various rebirths. However, since there is a causal connection among all those rebirths, one cannot also say that rebirth happens without there being a previous “satta” existing in one of the realms.
– When one contemplates these concepts (as a Sotapanna Anugami), those concepts become firmly established in one’s mind at some point. That is the Sotapanna phala moment.In summary, Susila Thero says the following.
– One becomes a Sotapanna Anugami when one gets rid of Sakkaya ditthi by removing both ucceda ditthi (there is no rebirth process) and sassata ditthi (that there is a “soul” or “atman” or “a vinnana” going from one life to another. This requires the first two conditions of Sappurisasaṃsevana and saddhamma savana, i.e., learning the true Dhamma from a “Noble friend.”
– Then one becomes a Sotapanna when one gets rid of any uncertainty about that after contemplating (yoniso manasikara) and living according to that Dhamma (dhammanudhamma patipada). That is when both vicikicca and silabbata paramasa (two other samyojana necessary for the Sotapanna stage) are removed.
– So, it is an interesting point. Furthermore, he seems to think that the “phala moment” can come at any time, not necessarily while listening to a discourse.We have discussed those four conditions at, “Four Conditions for Attaining Sōtapanna Magga/Phala”
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I feel that I might have something to contribute to this discussion.
Lal says:
“One becomes a Sotapnna Anugami by hearing/reading about these explanations. If one really comprehends, one ‘sees” that the rebirth process is a “cause and effect” effect and that there is no “self” or a “soul” going through various rebirths. However, since there is a causal connection among all those rebirths, one cannot also say that rebirth happens without there being a previous “satta” existing in one of the realms.”
Sometime ago, a sudden thought came to my mind. I asked myself “why am I practicing the Buddha dhamma for?” Since after this jati, if there’s a next bhava/jati, I wouldn’t be able to remember anything from this jati, as well it won’t be the current “I/me/self” that is suffering or enjoying, why should I care what happens to my next bhava/jati? The interesting thing is my wife asked me the exact same question a few weeks later when I was trying to explain the Buddha dhamma to her. Luckily, I was able to come up with an answer for myself right away, otherwise I would’ve had a difficult time to continue my Buddha dhamma practice. The answers that I was able to come up for myself are:
#1. To reduce/remove/minimize the amount of suffering that this jati has to go through, but this is not the most important thing. The most important thing is
#2. If I’m not able to attain Nibbana in this very jati, I know the next bhava/jati would have to go through some form of suffering. The next bhava/jati would most likely do harm to oneself and as well to other living beings. I do not wish/like/want or at least minimize the next bhava/jati suffering, but most importantly not hurting oneself or other living beings. It’s like . . I do not want/wish to create more suffering in this world for any living beings currently and into the future. This is the main reason why I walk the noble eightfold path.
It’s also kinda interesting, but I find thinking this way is also like Metta bhavana. I believe this is what works for me in regards to Metta bhavana.
#3. Another way to answer the question that I had for myself is to see my next bhava/jati as my own children. I’m sure almost all parents can agree that they would want the very best for their children. I would like/wish the very best for my next bhava/jati if I’m not able to attain Nibbana. I hope to minimize the amount of suffering the next bhava/jati would have to go through and most importantly, finish walking the noble eightfold path and eventually attain Nibbana.
Thinking in the above ways, I feel it’s no longer all about a “me/I/self”. I started contemplating more about the five aggregates and trying to see deeper that this “me/I/self” is really nothing more than the five aggregates with gati/asava’s and avija/moha creating this “I/me/self” view. Simplifying things for myself, really I’m just the five aggregates that attaches/seeks the five aggregates to create assada. Pancakkhandha —> panca upadanakkhanda —> pancakkhanda —> panca upadanakkhanda and continues on until I can put a stop to the upadanakkhanda.
Lal says
“So, it is an interesting point. Furthermore, he seems to think that the “phala moment” can come at any time, not necessarily while listening to a discourse.”
I don’t know if or when I attained any phala moments, but from my own experiences. Most of my profound moments comes from contemplation after I read something on this website or listen to some sermons or out of nowhere. If I felt that I read or listened to something that is important at that moment, I would stop reading or listening and start contemplating on what I felt was important to me at that time and sometimes I would get profound insights/moments. Hardly that I can remember that I would get profound moments while I’m actively reading or listening, but maybe this is how things work for me at this moment. I’m sure some can gain profound insights while actively listening or reading. As well, sometimes out of nowhere, while I’m not reading or listening, the Buddha dhamma would come to my mind and sometimes I would get profound insights/moments then.
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TripleGemStudent wrote: “I asked myself “why am I practicing the Buddha dhamma for?” Since after this jati, if there’s a next bhava/jati, I wouldn’t be able to remember anything from this jati, as well it won’t be the current “I/me/self” that is suffering or enjoying, why should I care what happens to my next bhava/jati?.”
Yes. That is a question that comes to the mind of many people when I try to explain that there is no “soul” going from one life to another AND it is also not the case that they are totally different.
The answers that you have come up with are all valid.
Another way to look at it is the following.
1. You are not the same as when you were a few years ago. That is true in both your rupa and your mindset (vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana).
– However, you have the same PERCEPTION of “me” and “mine.”
– Those children who describe their previous birth always have that perception too. They say “I was this and that. I died this way, etc.”2. In some births (for example, peta or hungry ghost births), one can recall what happened in previous lives that led to that particular birth (just like those children can their past life.)
3. If anyone cultivates jhana (Ariya or anariya) to the fourth jhana, they can see their past lives as well.
Even though the PERCEPTION of “me” is not correct in the ultimate sense, the suffering is real. That is the main point. Suffering does not stop until that perception of “me” goes away at the Arahant stage.
– At the Sotapanna stage, one only realizes that the perception of “me” is not correct AND that is why one is engaged in the rebirth process in the hopes of “enjoying life”.
– But that craving for enjoyment (kama raga) itself is the cause for future rebirths!
– One thing that Susima Thero explains well is the dangers of kama raga.
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