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“However, with the merging of a gandhabba, that zygote becomes alive—as alive as you and me.“
But it doesn’t have a brain yet and can’t receive any sensory input. From the perspective of those who choose to abort, it is just a microscopic lump of cells that knows nothing about the world, including itself. With that being said, will their minds release javana citta equivalent to that of killing a human with well defined organs and nervous system?
Dr. Lal wrote:
- That is a separate issue. Either way, those are hard and agonizing decisions. That is why life is suffering.
- That child did not get pregnant without a cause. It is a kamma vipaka. How one handles a kamma vipaka is a separate issue.
- Why would one come down with cancer (even if they took care of their health all their lives) or get into a car accident (even though it is not their fault)? There are an uncountable number of examples. Those are possible because we are born with this physical body.
That’s the thing. Killing the embryo would mean forcefully removing the gandhabba but letting a woman/child face the burden of unwanted pregnancy would also be immoral. In all honesty, if I had to deal with something like this, I would take the former route. This is why I am typically against abortion ban. One’s vipaka is one’s own responsibility and we can get into situations where we have to commit acts that can be akusala. Killing someone invasive to save others would be another example.
Thank you, Yash and Dr. Lal for sharing your insights.
Yash wrote: “So the best way that I feel is to try to introduce the teachings by explaining the Pleasure cycle and then Distorted Sanna. I tried with this with my cousin sister and it worked . It would then create more curiosity in them and then we can proceed further.”
I think that is a great idea, thought it didn’t work with my family members lol. When I try to inform them, they try to preach me instead. That’s why, one of the quoted comments above: “I knew about Buddha’s teachings before he taught it.”
Dr. Lal wrote: “Most people tend to seek the “easy way out.” If someone teaches that one can be born in heaven by killing people of other religions, many are willing to accept that on faith.
- This is why the Buddha’s teachings tend to “go underground” relatively quickly. They are not easy to grasp, so the tendency to lose the “deep meanings” is very high.
- That happened in India merely 500 years after the Buddha’s passing. Instead, the Vedic teachings took hold very quickly. While they share many concepts from Buddha’s teachings, those are only superficial.”
I am sick of dealing with these indolent people and their sleazy “know-it-all” attitudes. Empty-headed infantile evangelicals in the west and ritual bound yellow bellies in the east. No point in sharing the elixir to cure cancer to the infected that isn’t willing (and/or doesn’t have the capability) to take it.
Despite the saddening epiphany, I draw inspiration from Venerable Sariputta who, right before his death, taught the profound Dhamma to his Vedic mother who despite being previously hostile attained the Sotapanna stage at 100 years old. I am really tired and have no interest in directly guiding anyone else for now. But in the meantime, I’ve decided to prepare a few books and audio clips of (my understanding of) essential Dhamma concepts in local language so that those interested could learn a thing or two whenever they want. The primary goal remains to remove the defilements from my own mind. Let’s see what happens in more years to come.
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Yes, Dr. Lal. My family has always strictly followed Hinduism. Only thing I knew about Buddha growing up was that he was born in Nepal. Sorry if it was implied otherwise.
I decided to stop trying to teach them (and other family members and friends) out of compassion. I noticed that there are mainly 2 approaches to learning Dhamma – one is the moral approach and the other is the intellectual. For me, taking the intellectual route clearly shows that Buddha’s teachings don’t stem from a mere speculation or religious foundation. It contains rigorous analysis of mental phenomena that can be challenging to even the brightest minds and I’m often discovering something new. But for most people, this approach doesn’t seem to work. Venerable Maithree Thero told me, “Most people aren’t Scientists, but Artists.” So not intending to put any pressure onto my people, I decided to take the simpler route. But what’s up with the hostility? I frequently hear comments like,
“Sir became a Buddha follower?! his lineage will now disappear.”
“Yeah, follow Buddhism and become celibate for life!!!”
“What?! You follow Buddha?! Aren’t you a Brahmin?!”
“Guy is following Buddha religion now… it seems like his head has stopped working properly”
“I knew about Buddha’s teachings before he taught it!”
“Don’t you dare not follow Hinduism”
Even those that were relatively receptive like my grandparents, they couldn’t understand the teachings. I tried explaining the suffering associated with rebirth process in the 31 realms of existence as advised above, trying to make it as easy as I can, but they immediately claim that all of this has been addressed in Bhagavad Geeta (sacred book of Hinduism) and didn’t listen to me while I tried to clarify the fact that Buddha’s teachings are only superficially similar to Hinduism.
I have learnt that Dhamma should not be advertised. In Jethavanarama Viharaya, they put a lot of emphasis on merits which is why everyone is encouraged to participate in merit making activities. More merits you have, more accessible the truth is to you. There were those who had enough merits to become a bhikkhu after hearing a single discourse. No practitioner would want the people they care about to remain in this brutal world, but for those who aren’t able to see the value in the Triple Gem, it seems better to avoid any compulsion or inducement. Persisting can make things worse for them.
This is the conclusion I’ve made – to stop sharing the Dhamma. If anyone here has any tips or anything pertaining to this, please consider sharing.
Theruwan Saranai
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I will also add that the video is likely a reenactment of the actual experiment:
The legitimacy of the film is controversial, with some commentators suggesting it is a recreation of the actual experiments, which were more modest. According to some scientists who claimed to have seen the experiments in the film, the severed dog head only survived for a few minutes when attached to the artificial heart, as opposed to the hours claimed in the film.
Read: Experiments in the Revival of Organisms
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The value of something can’t be discerned by throwing guesses and making assumptions, but through rigorous examination. I have made this mistake before. If one sees any issues/contradictions of Abhidhamma concepts with the rest of the canon, they can bring it up. Else, who knows (or cares?) what precisely happened 2000+ years ago.
Yes Lang, I wanted to emphasize the fact that during this process, the ignorant mind thinks a “self” is experiencing the vexation when in reality, it is simply the effect of the causes (suitable gati, sensory input, etc.) coming together.
And thanks for suggesting the relevant post!
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I stand corrected. Abhidhamma was completed 250 years after Buddha’s parinibbana in the 3rd council and the Tipitaka was written down in the 4th council.
I noticed this before but if abhidhamma was “invented” by generations of monks after Buddha Gotama, I would expect it to contain many inconsistencies with the Suttas. But so far, I have not seen any significant contradiction.
Additionally, the so-called “scholars” who make those statements are non-ariyas who frequently make mistakes in their translations of the Pali Tipitaka. So I wouldn’t trust them. That being said, it has been stated that Abhidhamma in its final form was completed in the 4th Buddhist Council, almost 5 centuries after our Sammasambuddha. But the main framework was already there in the 1st council:
“21. Pañcasatikakkhandhaka” section of the “Cūḷavagga” of the Vinaya Piṭaka contains a small section at the end called Tassuddānaṁ which summarizes the events of the First Buddhist Council. It contains this verse: “Upāliṁ vinayaṁ pucchi, suttantānandapaṇḍitaṁ; Piṭakaṁ tīṇi saṅgītiṁ,akaṁsu jinasāvakā.”
- That says: “Venerable Upāli recited the Vinaya (Upāliṁ vinayaṁ pucchi,) Ven. Ananda recited the Suttas (suttantānandapaṇḍitaṁor sutta ānanda paṇḍitaṁ), and all of the 500 Arahants present recited ALL THREE Piṭaka (Piṭakaṁ tīṇi saṅgītiṁ,akaṁsu jinasāvakā.)
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Those Ariyas below the Arahant stage may have minor wrong views (but not the three samyojana of sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa).
In my country (Nepal), people are heavily influenced by silabbata paramasa. This includes my family members who tried to spam me with rituals as soon as I came to visit. While they probably don’t have bad intentions, I think I am educated enough to know that visiting a land rumored as “sacred” or taking a bath in a lake doesn’t wash anyone’s “sins”. I get told logicless statements like “let’s do this pooja, your income will improve” or “don’t travel in these specific days, it can cause misfortune”, etc.
This has made think it would be utterly difficult for me to effectively share the Dhamma in my home community. While I am a bit saddened to see my country infected with the business minded Pundit culture, I would like for my family members to enter the Noble stream. But I don’t know if I am capable of doing so right now (I am not an Anagami). Is there any specific approach that Buddha recommended in situations like these? I am little hesitant to wait as well since there is no certainty of when death will transpire. Any advice here would be appreciated.
Starting at 16.8, the Pali and Sutta Central translations are as follows:
Itthī ca purisaṁ ativelaṁ upanijjhāyati puriso ca itthiṁ.
Women spent too much time gazing at men, and men at women.
Tesaṁ ativelaṁ aññamaññaṁ upanijjhāyataṁ sārāgo udapādi, pariḷāho kāyasmiṁ okkami.
They became lustful, and their bodies burned with fever.
Te pariḷāhapaccayā methunaṁ dhammaṁ paṭiseviṁsu.
Due to this fever they had sex with each other.
Ye kho pana te, vāseṭṭha, tena samayena sattā passanti methunaṁ dhammaṁ paṭisevante, aññe paṁsuṁ khipanti, aññe seṭṭhiṁ khipanti, aññe gomayaṁ khipanti:
Those who saw them having sex pelted them with dirt, clods, or cow-dung, saying,
nassa asuci, nassa asucī’ti.
‘Get lost, filth! Get lost, filth!
‘Kathañhi nāma satto sattassa evarūpaṁ karissatī’ti.
How on earth can one being do that to another?’
Tadetarahipi manussā ekaccesu janapadesu vadhuyā nibbuyhamānāya aññe paṁsuṁ khipanti, aññe seṭṭhiṁ khipanti, aññe gomayaṁ khipanti.
And even today people in some countries, when carrying a bride off, pelt her with dirt, clods, or cow-dung.
Chase’s interview took place in 1994, meaning there is approximately a 129-year gap between his life as a black soldier and his current life as a red-headed boy.
As if manussa bhava isn’t rare enough, manussa jati seems even more rare. If there are trillions of human gandhabbas in the paraloka, considering that human population is 8.2 billion, I would think that many gandhabbas would die without even getting a human birth (and even those that do would be miserable after death due to constant cravings). Most of them will likely grasp an apaya bhava, and be born instantaneously to experience extreme anguish if not an animal bhava. If it is an animal, getting an animal jati doesn’t seem hard. Mammals like dog could have up to a dozen puppies in one litter, reptiles like turtle can lay up to 110 eggs, and even worse crustaceans like crab can lay millions.
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Each birth ends in death with future uncertain. While a birth in higher realm would contain little suffering, that is also temporary and birth in the apaya (where most existences are) isn’t avoidable for those below the sotapanna stage, so there is net suffering. Additionally, the “pleasures” experienced in the higher realms are made up by the mind and incomparable to Nibbanic bliss anyway. Thus, the goal is to stop rebirth and end suffering for good. I don’t see why it needs to be more complicated than this.
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I see, thank you for the explanation! The world is more mysterious than we often realize.
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“3. I do not understand what you are trying to say in steps #1 through #5 in your last comment.”
I was referring to the process involved in generating conscious thoughts and taking bodily action, essentially to try to understand how a hadaya vatthu can consciously generate citta. Perhaps, it is a fundamental attribute.
Thank you for suggesting the relevant posts. I will get back after I go through them.
