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It is said that King Sudoddhana (the father of Lord Buddha) attained the anagami stage by listening to a jataka. Unless this too is false?? This is not to put you in an uncomfortable situation sir. If my obstinacy seems ill-mannered, please excuse me.
KING SUDDHODANA: FATHER OF LORD GAUTAMA BUDDHA Having heard this news from the king, the Buddha delivered a sermon based on the Mahā Dhammapāla Jataka, which was a previous birth story of the Buddha, when King Suddhodana and the Buddha had been the father and son. At that time too, the king had refused to believe that his son was dead, even when he was shown a heap of bones that was alleged to have been from his son’s dead body. Following this sermon, King Suddhodana has attained the third spiritual stage of Non-Returner (Anāgāmi).
I ended up finding this sutta while reading the jatakas, sir.
- Paniya Jātaka: “Brethren, there is no such thing as a petty sin. A Brother must check all sins as they each arise. Wise men of old, before the Buddha came, subdued their sins and attained the knowledge of a Pacceka-Buddha.” With these words, he told them a story of the past. Once upon a time, when Brahmadatta was king in Benares, there were two friends in a certain village in the kingdom of Kasi. These had gone afield, taking with them vessels for drinking, which they laid out of the way as they broke the clods, and when they were thirsty, went and drank water out of them. One of them, on going for a drink, husbanded the water in his pot and drank out of the pot of the other. In the evening, when he came out from the woodland and had bathed, he stood thinking. “Have I done any sin today,” thought he, “either by the door of the body, or any other?” Then he remembered how he drank the stolen water, and grief came upon him, and he cried, “If this thirst grows upon me, it will bring me to some evil birth! I will subdue my sin.” So with this stolen draught of water for cause, he gradually acquired supernatural insight, and attained the knowledge of a Pacceka-Buddha; and there he stood, reflecting upon the knowledge which he had attained.
- Another man, who also lived in the village of Kasi, a land-owner, was sitting in the bazaar when he saw a man approach leading his wife. Seeing her (and she was a woman of surpassing beauty) he broke the moral principles, and looked upon her; then again he thought, “This desire, if it increases, will cast me into some evil birth.” Being exercised in mind, he developed supernatural insight, and attained the knowledge of a Pacceka Buddha; then poised in the air, he delivered a discourse, and he also went to the Nandamula cave.
Another source:Paniya Jataka (#459)
Then he told them this story as an example of how contemplating small sins can lead to great attainment. When the Buddha was finished, all five hundred disciples became arahants.
I think it’s Anapanasati right?
Yes. I always found it fascinating. Animals are apaya beings and yet they have better sensory capacities than us.
- They can see spirits and gandhabbas for example. I think I sent it to you by email last year. The story of a man in a coma who was saved by his dog. He spent a few years in a coma and the doctors wanted him unplugged. The dog threatened to bite the doctors. He knew (the dog) that they wanted to unplug him!! A few days later the dog’s owner wakes up. The dog saw that the gandhabba was still linked to the physical body. However, on deeper analysis, these advanced senses are only there to amplify the stress and constant distress of their conditions. Petas remember their past lives and are constantly in regret.
- An average human would like to have all these abilities but he risks having severe depression seeing the horrible lives he had to go through in Samsara. Arahant Maha Mogallana often went to the niraya hells, without being affected. The mind of an arahant is immune to any unpleasant situation. If he was an average human without jhanas and abhinnas, he would have sunk into depression, seeing these worlds. Sometimes for some people, it’s better not to know certain things. We understand better why Lord Buddha said not to focus too much on this.
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I found another sutta that supports this point. Lord Buddha tells the story of a man who saw an army of asuras enter a lotus stem!!! Lokacintāsutta : The defeated and terrified titans entered the citadel of the Titans (asuras) through the lotus stalk only to confuse the gods.
To answer Yash’s question, I believe it is due to the moral impurity of people in our time. The people of Lord Buddha’s time were much more virtuous than the people of now. This was why their era was the golden age of the Ariyas. Devas (those of good gati) tend to show themselves to those who are virtuous. Those who develop jhanas can see them very well I believe.
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Sir Lal: Once, a Deva came to see the Buddha and “could not balance his subtle, almost weightless body and was having a hard time standing up.” So, the Buddha asked the Deva to “make up a dense body so that he could stand firm.” I don’t recall the name of the sutta.
ME: It’s in the Hatthaka Sutta, sir.
Hatthaka Alavaka passed away as a Non-Returner and was reborn in the first of the five Pure Abodes known as Aviha. According to the Hatthaka Devaputta sutta of the Samyutta Nikaya, during one night the deity (Brahma) Hatthaka visited the Buddha at the Jetavana monastery in Savatti. When he was with the Buddha he could not stay upright properly as his body was so fine and the Buddha had to advise him to make his body a coarse one so that he could stand up in front of the Buddha.
As we know, the body of Brahmas is even finer than the devas. This may be why it had difficulty solidifying at first. Hatthaka was one of the anagami brahmas who taught the Dhamma to other deities.
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Yes, one of my teachers spoke about this experience. He experienced this in Burma for many years in his youth.
• When we get closer to the Dhamma, we get closer to reality. Our thoughts align with reality. He said when we reach a high level of morality(sīla)or concentration (samadhi) our wishes come true more easily. A mind that approaches purity is extremely powerful. Remember that the Dhamma is purely mental. Lord Buddha said that the mind is the precursor of matter. If we act with a pure mind happiness follows us like the cart follows the ox.
• However, by indulging in this one can easily fall into sakkaya ditthi. Brahma Baka is an example. Long ago when in an empty kappa, He was the only being below the Abhassara world. He said to himself; It would be good if there were beings and worlds. Beings and worlds have indeed appeared. Since then he has fallen into the erroneous belief that he is the creator of all things.
• The devas also have thoughts which give rise to their wishes. They may wish to experience such sensual pleasures etc.
• In summary, as long as we do not have a good knowledge of the Dhamma, this type of experience can be very dangerous and lead us away from the path. It will strengthen sakkaya ditthi if one does not have wisdom.
I find it surprising how sudden deaths occur. It highlights the importance of positive thoughts and actions, and the need to develop kusalas. If Matthakundali had not met Lord Buddha, who knows where he would have been reborn? Please accept my condolences for your aunt’s passing 🙏🏿. This explanation has taught me that our bhava can end at any moment, regardless of our age. Thank you for this explanation, sir.
Matthakundali Vatthu: On that morning, the Buddha arising early from his deep meditation of compassion saw, in his Net of Knowledge, Matthakundali lying on the verandah. So when entering Savatthi for alms-food with his disciples, the Buddha stood near the door of the brahmin Adinnapubbaka. The Buddha sent forth a ray of light to attract the attention of the youth, who was facing the interior of the house. The youth saw the Buddha ,and as he was very weak he could only profess his faith mentally. But that was enough. When he passed away with his heart in devotion to the Buddha he was reborn in the Tavatimsa celestial world.From his celestial abode the young Matthakundali, seeing his father mourning over him at the cemetery, appeared to the old man in the likeness of his old self. He told his father about his rebirth in the Tavatimsa world and also urged him to approach and invite the Buddha to a meal. At the house of Adinnapubbaka the question of whether one could or could not be reborn in a celestial world simply by mentally professing profound faith in the Buddha, without giving in charity or observing the moral precepts, was brought up. So the Buddha willed that Matthakundali should appear in person; Matthakundali soon appeared fully decked with celestial ornaments and told them about his rebirth in the Tavatimsa world.Then only, the audience became convinced that the son of the brahmin Adinnapubbaka by simply devoting his mind to the Buddha had attained much glory.Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Manopubbangama dhamma
manosettha manomaya
manasa ce pasannena
bhasati va karoti va
tato nam sukha manveti
chayava anapayini.
Verse 2: All mental phenomena have the mind as their forerunner; they have the mind as their chief; they are mind-made. If one speaks or acts with a pure mind, happiness (sukha) follows him like a shadow that never leaves him.
At the end of the discourse, Matthakundali and his father, Adinnapubbaka, attained Sotapatti Magga and Sotapatti Phala.
As I was reading this story, I wondered whether Matthakundali still had kammic energy to continue with human bhava, considering he was young at the time of his death. However, the story goes on to say that when he paid homage to Lord Buddha at the time of his death, he grasped another bhava at the cuti-patisandhi and became a deva. I’m not sure if this is considered a good anantariya kamma in this particular case, as he didn’t perform many positive actions during his lifetime. He was not a Sotāpanna, before his life as a deva.
I am curious Lal sir what will happen if she becomes an arahant?? She will find a “normal” sanna like Arahant Jambuka or will it stay the same?? If it is a subject that only a Lord Buddha can answer then we can let it go.
Arahant Jambuka Thera : He was born in Rājagaha to rich parents but from infancy, he would eat nothing but excrement. When he grew older he was ordained with the ājīvakas, who pulled out his hair with a Palmyra comb. When the Ajivakas discovered that he ate filth, they expelled him and he lived as a naked ascetic, practicing all kinds of austerities and accepting no offerings save butter and honey placed on the tip of his tongue with the point of a blade of grass.
- What can we say in this case of distorded Sanna?? Humans are not supposed to be attracted to feces. However, the ascetic Jambuka loved it. The cause of such sanna is due to bad kamma vipaka dating back to the time of Lord Kassapa(billions of years ago).
- After becoming an arahant he stopped these practices. We can see in our world today people who drink urine, sleep with corpses (necrophilic), and others who sleep with animals (zoophilia). Can we conclude that the attainment of the magga phala has a big impact on the distorted sanna?
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Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
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Hi Silasampanno.
- As a former Christian, I can tell you that God’s love is a myth. First, you have to know what love is. Love is the absence of Dosa(hatred). It’s from the anagami stage that we start the real metta. In the Bible, we see God showing great malevolence. He condemns people to eternal hell and amuses himself with the lives of his followers. The story of Job is an example.
- God kills Job’s children and destroys his wealth to see if he would remain faithful to him. I can cite many other examples, but it will be too long. Reading the Bible we see a great contradiction with “the love of God”.
- Of course, there are Christians who are highly moral people and who come close to what they call the love of God. But as Mr. Lal and Dawson say, this is not enough to free oneself from Samsarā.
- I apologize in advance if my words may offend some people. My goal is not to denigrate any religion. You can look up the story of Job on the internet and read the apocalypse of John.
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The Story of Kāḷadevila the Hermit
- Again, Kāḷadevila pondered whether he would or would not see the young Prince attain Buddhahood. He realized through his foreseeing wisdom that before the young Prince’s attainment of Buddhahood, he would pass away and be reborn in an arūpa abode of Brahmās where nobody would be capable of hearing the Deathless Dhamma even if hundreds and thousands of Buddhas were to go and teach it. “I will not get an opportunity of seeing and paying obeisance to this man of marvel who is endowed with unique merits of the Perfections. This will be a great loss for me.” So saying and being filled with immense grief, he wept bitterly.
Notes on the arūpa abode of Brahmās:
- (An arūpa abode of Brahmās is a plane of existence which is totally devoid of material phenomena, there being only mental consciousness (citta) and its concomitants (cetasika). In such an abode are reborn ti-hetuka puthujjanas, worldlings with three roots (roots of non-greed, non-hate and non-delusion) and such Noble Ones as Sotāpannas (Stream-winners), Sakadāgāmins (Once-returners) and Anāgāmins (Non-returners) who have attained the arūpa jhāna. The sotāpannas, sakadāgāmins and anāgāmins who have reached that arūpa brahmās’ abode will no longer return to the lower planes of existence. As they are experienced in practising meditation up to the stage of the Path and Fruition while in the sensuous wholesome abodes (kāma sugati) and in the material (rūpa) abodes, they are able to pursue the same Vipassanā(Insight) meditation which they had practiced previously. They attain higher stages up to the Path and Fruition and Nibbāna in the same abodes of arūpa, thereby terminating all suffering in saṃsāra even though they do not hear the Dhamma from anyone.
- This is what Sir Lal talked about yesterday in the video discussion.
- It seems that some yogi puthujunas know that arupa loka is not the final liberation. Yogi Kaladevila was sad to miss the opportunity to become an ariya.
