[alvino96]

Could all above comments be concluded by this?
In case 1, the intention is to only WALK and meditate, it has no direct connection to any other beings (including the insect etc), we can safely say the dying of the insects is purely collateral damage, we can coarsely commpare it to a bolder rollong down a hill (the boulder just moves because of gravity, it has no intention towards any being or anyTHING). This explanation makes much more sense.

Here’s another case similar to the one above: Some people like to guilt other people for eating meat, since it causes suffering to the animal, but they might not realise even consuming vegetables kills animals (there are bugs, worms and snails killed in the process from planting to harvesting); but the dying of the bugs is again, COLLATERAL, we just consumed the stuff and indirectly cause the unwanted effect.

In case 2, the intention it to INFORM other party, which directly affects the person B, we cannot say it is collateral damage; A knows B will probably overreact, so kamma is indeed created.
In case 3 the same happened; Grandmother want to effect baby to not suffer (grow up healthily), but due to ignorance or lack of knowledge about nutritions she caused more suffering instead (failed kidney). Kamma is definitely created.

It all comes to intention AND parties involved. If the intention involves other party directly, and also directly causes more suffering to them, then we can safely say there is he/she will be responsible in the future. Do please discuss this issue even further.

To Lal:
Thank you very much for creating this website, I always find ‘holes’ in people’s view everytime, especially during a 3 year period where I spent a good portion of my spare time studying many major religions and philosophical view, until I stumbled upon this website when researching Citta and Abhidhamma. Not only I found myself automatically sucked into contemplate deeper and deeper concepts, I also felt a burst of joy everytime I stumbled upon newly “rediscovered Dhamma concepts” and after a quick contemplation realised it is in sync with my previous existing Dhamma information, truly the world view puzzle is heading in the right assembly direction.

[alvino96]

Thank you for the initial response, I’ll be monitoring this thread should any discussion appear.
I read the last part about insane people not creating kamma (if the action is due to their insanity, I guess?)
I think it is consistent within Buddha Dhamma, since medically insane people has a brain with broken wiring here and there. Refering to other post about Ghandhabba, and the simile about how manomaya kaya (ghandabba) is like the driver of a tank, if the tank somehow malfunctioned and suddenly start shooting random people, the driver won’t be charged for any crime; that’s the reason medically insane people would not accumulate bad kamma in this case.

I am still really curious about the 2 cases mentioned in the first comment though.

[alvino96]

Thank you for the explanation.

I read the story of Upatissa and Kolitha (Ven. Sariputta and Moggalana) becoming Arahant in one lifetime (by attaining stages after stages on different occasions), therefore it should be possible to attain Arahanthood in one lifetime (in this case one human jati).

If it is correct, then Ven. Sariputta and Moggalana and Ven. Angulimala must have cultivated good kamma that allows them to live in the same time as The Buddha himself which combined with good kammas for them to be born with good conditions (physical, mental, living conditions etc) which in the end allowed them to contemplate Dhamma and attain Arahanthood., therefore they all haven’t attained any stages of nibbana before, and be born many different realms (including apayas) within that waiting time.

Another interesting point also arises from this (this partly is my opinion, so please correct me if I’m wrong):
The urgent goal in this lifetime for us REALLY IS attaining Sotapanna stage, because it acts as a “brake” from this Samsaric Circle in which we have suffered for too long. This is in line with your other article (I do not remember which one).
The Arahants mentioned above must have started on the path long long ago, but for some reason hasn’t yet attained any stages, which results in a really long wait time. Unfortunately there is nobody who can accurately tell us whether we have reached any stages or not, so we should keep striving to stay on the path.
This sense of urgency has been on my mind for quite some time now, and whenever I thought of people I care about, I felt the same urgency for them, given how rare it is for any being having the chance to listen/read true Dhamma, and contemplate on it.

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