[pathfinder]

Would like to ask if anyone knows how much we can rely on the agamas. If the person who translated the agamas from pali/ prakits to chinese had good knowledge of both languages, and a good understanding of buddhism too, then it can be another source of reference for us to verify meanings.

It could be even more reliable than the pali to english translations, since the prakit to chinese translations were translated much earlier than the european scholars.

[Lal]

This is a good question.

• I know that Bhikkhu Bodhi started researching Chinese Agamas several years ago. But I don’t think he published any results. I didn’t know whether he learned enough Chinese to complete the task.
• Only someone fluent in Chinese and knowledgeable in the Buddha’s teachings can answer this question.

It would be beneficial if anyone who has read Chinese Agamas could give their opinion.

[Lal]

I asked Grok (Musk’s AI): “Has anyone published work comparing Chinese Agamas with the Pali Canon (Tipitaka)?”

Grok (version 3, the newest): 

Yes, several scholars have published works comparing the Chinese Agamas with the Pali Canon (Tipitaka), focusing on their similarities, differences, and implications for understanding early Buddhist teachings. Below is an overview based on available information up to February 22, 2025:

 

Key Scholars and Works

 

1. Bhikkhu Anālayo
   • Notable Work: A Comparative Study of the Majjhima-nikāya (2011)
   • Focus: This extensive two-volume work compares the Pali Majjhima Nikaya (Middle-Length Discourses) with its Chinese counterpart, the Madhyama Agama. Anālayo examines parallel texts to highlight doctrinal consistency, textual variations, and transmission differences. His analysis often emphasizes how these texts align in core teachings while noting divergences in phrasing, structure, or additional content in the Agamas.
   • Significance: Anālayo’s work is widely regarded for its meticulous detail and is a cornerstone for comparative studies of early Buddhist texts. He also explores specific discourses, such as the Nandakovāda Sutta, in articles like “Attitudes Towards Nuns” (2010), comparing Pali and Chinese versions.
2. Bhikshu Thich Minh Chau
   • Notable Work: The Chinese Madhyama Agama and the Pali Majjhima Nikaya: A Comparative Study (1991)
   • Focus: This book provides a detailed comparison of the 222 sutras in the Chinese Madhyama Agama (from the Sarvastivada tradition) with the 152 suttas in the Pali Majjhima Nikaya (Theravada tradition). It covers structural differences, such as the division into vargas and fasciculi, and subtle doctrinal variations, offering insights into how these traditions evolved.
   • Significance: Written by a Vietnamese monk-scholar, this work is valuable for its accessibility and focus on bridging Sarvastivada and Theravada perspectives.
3. Marcus Bingenheimer
   • Notable Work: Studies in Āgama Literature (2011) and articles like “Two Sūtras in the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama without Direct Pāli Parallels” (2013)
   • Focus: Bingenheimer compares the Chinese Samyukta Agama with the Pali Samyutta Nikaya, identifying texts unique to the Agamas and analyzing their potential as later additions. His digital projects, such as the Digital Comparative Catalogue of the Pali-Chinese Agama Literature, facilitate cross-referencing between the two canons.
   • Significance: His work combines textual analysis with digital humanities, making it easier for researchers to explore parallels and divergences systematically.
4. Bhikkhu Sujato
   • Notable Work: “The Pali Nikāyas and Chinese Āgamas” (online article, available via SuttaCentral)
   • Focus: Sujato provides an overview of the relationship between the Nikayas and Agamas, arguing that they represent parallel transmissions of early Buddhist teachings from different schools (Theravada for Pali, Sarvastivada/Dharmaguptaka for Chinese). He emphasizes their doctrinal similarity despite linguistic and stylistic differences.
   • Significance: As a practical scholar-monk, Sujato integrates these comparisons into SuttaCentral, a platform hosting translations and cross-references, enhancing public access to these studies.
5. Choong Mun-keat
   • Notable Work: Contributions to translations and comparative analyses, such as annotations in The Madhyama Agama: Middle-Length Discourses (BDK English Tripitaka series)
   • Focus: Choong has worked on translating Agama texts and comparing them with Pali equivalents, often highlighting minor differences in terminology or narrative detail that reflect sectarian influences.
   • Significance: His efforts support broader translation projects, making comparative insights available in English.

Broader Collaborative Efforts

 

• BDK English Tripitaka Series: This project includes translations of the Chinese Agamas (e.g., The Madhyama Agama: Middle-Length Discourses, Volumes I and II, edited by Anālayo, Bingenheimer, and others, published 2013–2020). These volumes often include notes comparing the texts to their Pali parallels, such as the Dirgha Agama with the Digha Nikaya.
• Comparative Catalogues: Works like Chizen Akanuma’s The Comparative Catalogue of Chinese Agamas & Pali Nikayas (1929, later editions) provide foundational mappings of corresponding texts, though they lack detailed analysis compared to modern studies.

Key Findings from Comparisons

 

• Doctrinal Consistency: Scholars like Anālayo and Sujato note a high degree of agreement in core teachings (e.g., Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination), suggesting a shared origin before sectarian splits.
• Textual Variations: Differences include additional sutras in the Agamas (e.g., predictions of future Buddhas, as noted in Reddit discussions), variations in style (less stereotyped phrasing in some Agamas), and occasional Mahayana-like insertions (e.g., in the Ekottara Agama).
• Transmission Insights: The Agamas, often linked to northern schools like Sarvastivada, may preserve older elements lost in the Pali Canon, though the Pali Canon is the only complete surviving set of early texts, as discussed in forums like Dhamma Wheel.

Surprising Detail

 

One intriguing finding is the presence of a sutra in the Chinese Agamas where the Buddha predicts a disciple will become a future Buddha—an element absent in the Pali Canon, despite similar prophecies about Shakyamuni himself (e.g., from Dipankara). This has sparked debate about whether such additions reflect later interpolations or lost Pali material.

Conclusion

Yes, significant published work exists comparing the Chinese Agamas with the Pali Canon, with contributions from scholars like Anālayo, Minh Chau, Bingenheimer, and Sujato standing out. These studies illuminate the shared heritage and divergent paths of early Buddhist texts, offering rich resources for both academic and practitioner audiences. For deeper exploration, Anālayo’s Comparative Study or the BDK translations are excellent starting points.

__________

 

I have not even read the above answer since I am working on the next post.

[pathfinder]

I have a basic to intermediate understanding of Chinese, having studied it for several years in school. However, I stopped learning and practicing about seven years ago. Despite this, I can still grasp the nuances of basic words, and I supplement my understanding with Chinese dictionaries (MDBG) and ChatGPT when needed. I have provided English translations alongside the Chinese characters. 

Also, I used ChatGPT to format this post, but I have written it before hand myself and copied pasted it to ChatGPT.

1. Saccavibhanga Sutta (分別聖諦)

The English translation is available in the provided link, but I will highlight some words to explore their nuances. Overall, the translation is quite accurate in its meaning.

First Noble Truth

The text describes suffering (苦, kǔ) in different forms:

謂生(birth)苦、老(old age)苦、病(sickness)苦、死(death)苦。<br />
(Birth is suffering, old age is suffering, sickness is suffering, and death is suffering.)

• 苦 (kǔ):
  • Can mean bitter (in taste).
  • Can also mean pain, hardship, or suffering in a broader sense.

Further elaboration on suffering:

怨 (blame) 憎 (detest) 會苦 (is suffering).<br />
愛別離 (departing from what is loved) 苦 (suffering).<br />
所求 (what is wished for) 不得 (not attained) 苦 (suffering).<br />
略 (in brief), 五(five)盛 (grasping) 陰 (Im guessing aggregates) 苦 (suffering).

Quite similar to first noble truth

<hr data-start=”1797″ data-end=”1800″ />

Second Noble Truth – A Key Difference in Translation

The English translation provided reads:

“Good men, what is the noble truth of accumulating craving and suffering?<br />
It means sentient beings truly crave the six internal sense-fields: eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind.start<br />
If there is craving, dirt, defilement, and attachment, this is called accumulation (爲習).”

• 爲 (wéi) – I am not sure what it exactly means
  • ChatGPT suggests it means “to act according to”, but in this context, it may mean “to be influenced by” or “to function as”.
• 習 (xí) – Habit or conditioning.

Thus, 爲習 could mean:

“To be influenced by habit” or “To be shaped by conditioning” (suggesting the force of craving)

This is quite different from Tanha

Additionally, we notice that a key Pali phrase is missing from the Chinese version:

• “yāyaṁ taṇhā ponobbhavikā” (The craving that leads to future lives).
• This phrase, which emphasizes craving as the cause of rebirth, does not explicitly appear in the Chinese text.

2. Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta (非我)

The structure of the Āgama version closely follows the Pali version, and the English translation available in the link is generally accurate. However, I will highlight specific word choices.

Key Phrases and Their Nuances

1. 非我 (fēi wǒ) – “Not I”
   • This is the Āgama equivalent of “anattā” (non-self) in Pali.
   • 非 (fēi) = Negation, “not”
   • 我 (wǒ) = “I” . Not that it is not the equivalent of “self”! It is not used this way in Chinese
2. 色 (form) 非是我 – “Form is not I”
   • 色 (sè) = Rūpa (material form).
   • 非 (fēi) = Negation, “not”
   • 是 (shì) = “is”
   • 我 (wǒ) = “I”
   • This corresponds to the Pali “rūpaṁ anattā”
3. 色 (form) 爲是常，爲無常耶？
   • “Is form permanent or impermanent?”
   • 常 (cháng) = “always, frequent, constant.”
   • 無 (wú) + 常 (cháng) = impermanent (the negation of permanence).
   • This closely follows the Pali version’s structure.

It corresponds structurally to rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?

1. 比丘 (monks)，若無常 (impermanent) 者，是苦 (suffering)，不(is it not)？
   • “Monks, if something is impermanent, is it suffering?”
   • This line is nearly identical to the Pali phrasing.
2. Key Phrase: 有我、異我、相在
   • This corresponds structurally to the Pali “etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā”, but differs in wording.
   • 有 (yǒu) 我 (wǒ) = “There is I/me”
   • 異 (yì) 我 (wǒ) = “Separate from I/me”
   • 相 (xiāng) 在 (zài) = “To coexist together.”
3. 非我所如實觀察 – “Observing as it truly is: not me”
   • 非 (fēi) = “Not”
   • 我 (wǒ) = “I /me”
   • 所 (suǒ) = Marker for possession (“belonging to”).
   • 如實 (rú shí) = “As it truly is” / “In accordance with reality.”
   • 觀察 (guān chá) = “Observe, contemplate.”

We can see that the general idea is similar to that of the english translations, and the structure is somewhat similar too, though there are variations. The individual words cannnot capture the full meaning also, but gives a broad idea that is in the same direction.

• This reply was modified 2 hours ago by pathfinder.

[pathfinder]

There are also other key suttas, such as mahasatipatthana sutta 念處經

They convey quite a lot of similarity, but have some structural differences. For example, the agama version of the mahasatipatthana sutta did not include the 4 noble truths and 5 aggregates in dhammanupassana. By the way, they also had the practice of breathing in the kayanupassana section, using the word 入息 which means inhaling.

Ajahn Brahmali has talked about in a 4 part satipatthana series how, based on comparative studies, certain sections were added in the Pali section too, such as anapana section and situational awareness section. You can see him talk about it here at 29.33. He claims that based on comparative studies, the part on contemplating impurities is the most consistent across sources. Although it is stated that the nikayas were compiled in the first Buddhist Council based on the pali canon, he says that historians found texts being added later on too, suggesting that this may not entirely be true.

He has also shown that the situational awareness section could have been added in as it was not originally described as Sati in other suttas. You can watch it here at 42.07.

By the way, I recommend watching this 4 part series if you have the time, it builds good context around the sutta. Satipatthana Session 1 – Ajahn Brahmali – 20200101

• This reply was modified 2 hours ago by pathfinder.

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