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Lal.
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August 9, 2019 at 3:06 pm #24184
Tobias G
ParticipantI think there is a logical error in #10:
“…However, in the second jhāna, such thoughts free of vitakka (i.e., avitakka) would not sink in, would not purify, calm down, would not calm down my mind so that it would not become liberated (avitakke cittaṃ na pakkhandati nappasīdati na santiṭṭhati na vimuccati)”.
The second jhana is free of vitakka, thus thoughts with avitakka would sink in, would purify, calm down and lead to freedom. Please have a look at this paragraph.
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August 9, 2019 at 6:08 pm #24189
Lal
KeymasterYes. I had forgotten to add the phrase, “At a later time (the night of attaining the Buddhahood)” to the last bullet in #10. That phrase is in all other jhanas.
So, I just revised the last bullet in #10 as follows:
“At a later time (the night of attaining the Buddhahood), I was able to enter and stay in the vicinity of the second jhāna that was devoid of such defiled thoughts (vitakka) and with piti and sukha.The point here is that jhana factors in anariya jhana are not “pure” as in Ariya jhana.
Regarding #10, the second jhana is SUPPOSED TO BE free of vitakka/vicara. However, it is not completely free of vitakka/vicara in anariya jhana (where kama raga/patigha are only SUPPRESSED).
The Buddha had realized this “deficiency” before attaining the Buddhahood.
On the night of the Enlightenment, he attained Ariya jhana (where kama raga/patigha are REMOVED). Then he was able to have all vitakka/vicara removed.
I had pointed that out for all other jhana factors but somehow missed it for #10. Thanks for pointing that out.
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August 10, 2019 at 5:28 am #24232
Tobias G
ParticipantDo I understand it right, the Bodhisatta reached only close to each Jhana and stayed in the vicinity of that Jhana. There is no word that he entered the Jhana.
What is the meaning of the word Bodhisatta (bhodi+satta?)?
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August 10, 2019 at 6:55 am #24233
Lal
KeymasterNo. The Bodhisatta did attain all anariya jhanas soon after becoming a recluse. He learned how to attain anariya jhana from two yogis, Alara Kalama, and Uddaka Ramaputta.
But what the sutta explains is that those anariya jhana are not as good as Ariya jhana, simply because anariya jhana are attained by just SUPPRESSING kama raga/patigha, while Ariya jhanas are attained by REMOVING kama raga/patigha.
That statement is true regardless of who is cultivating jhana. But most people attaining anariya jhana may not realize that anariya jhana are not perfect.
Bodhisatta (bhodi+satta) means a living being (satta) working towards attaining the supreme attainment or the Buddhahood (Bodhi).
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August 10, 2019 at 6:58 am #24234
Tobias G
ParticipantIs an Ariya a Bhodhisatta, too?
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August 10, 2019 at 7:26 am #24235
Lal
KeymasterNo. That word is reserved for a future Buddha, who has been given “niyata vivarana” by many Buddhas; see, “Pāramitā and Niyata Vivarana – Myths or Realities?“.
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