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I had a conversation with a materialist teacher (who strangely also believes in God) when I initially started researching the mystery of consciousness and learning Dhamma. I wanted to have a productive conversation and was not expecting any ignorance from the guy. But this is kinda how it went:
“Since you have Biology background, can I ask you a couple of questions regarding the topic that I am researching?” – Me
“Sure.” – Teacher
“What do you think causes our consciousness?” – Me
“It is the brain.” – Teacher
“The brain is just a 3 pounds of inert matter. How can it generate complex mental experience?” – Me
“It does that through Electromagnetic Waves.” – Teacher
“EM Waves are made up of photons which are inherently inert, right? A light bulb releases those waves too but it would be dumb to say it is releasing thoughts.” – Me
“No, it is certainly the brain. We have zero evidence of anything else.” – Teacher
“Are you familiar with NDE?” – Me
“What is it?” – Teacher
“Recently, mostly since the past 5 decades, when a patient has a cardiac arrest and their heart stops beating, doctors can sometimes get their heart to start working back again.” – Me
“That is not possible.” – Teacher
“They have been doing this for more than 50 years.” – Me
“I don’t think they were actually dead.” – Teacher
“Those doctors say they did go beyond the traditional threshold of death. They write death certificate after the patient’s heart stops working. But in some cases the patient can be resuscitated, after which some of them report having been conscious when their brain activity was little to none.” – Me
“That is not possible.” – Teacher
“That’s what the researchers say.” – Me
“They must be fraud.” – Materialist Teacher
“How do you know that? Have you ever looked into their research?” – Me
“I don’t need to look into all that. It is quite obvious humans will eventually become extinct anyway.” – Materialist Teacher
“It is true that humans will become extinct and our physical bodies will decay but does it guarantee that our mental stuff will vanish into nothing? Gautam Buddha has great insights into this issue as he explained our conscious experience in great detail.” – Me
“(annoyed look) Buddha wAs jUst a hUmAn, not God. He did not provide everything. He said this life itself is suffering and encouraged celibacy. Whether you sleep with 9 women or with 1, what is the difference?” – Materialist Teacher
“That could harm you in the long run as it can turn into addiction. Mindlessly having sex with multiple partners is the kind of thing that animals do. Humans are obviously different in that sense as we have better sense of morality and have higher control over our desires.” – Me
“Humans are exactly the same as Animals. So I don’t think that makes any difference. You can say whatever you want but humans WILL become extinct pretty soon.” – Materialist Teacher
At that point, it was quite obvious that he had already concluded in his head that he knows everything. So I decided to end the conversation there. This is just one example of the many similar interactions I’ve had with people who straight up hide behind a wall of insecurity when their preconceived biases are challenged. I don’t know what’s the best way of dealing with such people. What do you guys think?
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I liked your responses Taryal!
The only possible way to make such conversations fruitful is only if the opposite party is not egoistic and biased to their preconceived thoughts.
If that person would have been open minded and truly in search of the truth, he would have listened to you and also tried to do some research by himself. So practically nothing it is that we can do in such a matter.
Debating them is also useless because of the above mentioned things and they’ll always say that “This reasearch is fraud, etc.” without looking into it open mindedly and logically.
Regarding that person’s question
“(annoyed look) Buddha wAs jUst a hUmAn, not God. He did not provide everything. He said this life itself is suffering and encouraged celibacy. Whether you sleep with 9 women or with 1, what is the difference?”
A normal human will always see ultimate bliss in sleeping with many many girls. There’s a celebrity (I forgot his name, I will try to find it) who is a sex addict and has sex 9 times a day, with many girls, he also uses certain medications to recover much faster and enjoy again and again . A normal man may consider this as EVERYTHING, but we all now here realise that it’s such a pitiful life he lives in .
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Yash wrote: “If that person would have been open minded and truly in search of the truth, he would have listened to you and also tried to do some research by himself. So practically nothing it is that we can do in such a matter.”
You are right. I did not realize that people tend to be quite sensitive towards this stuff. We are living in a really unique time of the world where modern science helps verify many aspects of Buddha Dhamma and many fascinating research like NDE, Rebirth accounts from children, etc. have been done that support the Dhamma and are easily accessible via internet. The explanations are there. All one needs to do is have an open mind and make an effort to go through them. Sadly many people create a road block for themselves out of their own ignorance and ego. Could this be some kamma vipaka?
Another example is one of my close friends who still thinks Buddhism belongs to the same category as Hinduism, despite me repeatedly encouraging him to look into Dhamma sources like this website. I was so disappointed when he claimed Buddha taught “Nirvana” and insinuated that I shouldn’t be like Christian missionaries trying to convert people into my religion, smh. Like dude, how can you tell me what to do when you are not even close to having a basic understanding of Buddha’s teachings?
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To be honest, we can’t really control what other people do. So we should stop worrying about them and focus on ourselves. I know that an experienced Dhamma practitioner would not be bothered by other’s incompetence but I guess I feel bothered due to my lack of experience. I would be more than happy to help those that are open minded and willing to learn. But we can’t save everyone and this world is too messed up. It is what it is.
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“To be honest, we can’t really control what other people do. So we should stop worrying about them and focus on ourselves.”
- That is true. There are two aspects to it, though.
1. One cannot fully help others until one frees oneself first. For example, if a group of people are trapped in a deep hole, one must first get out. Then, he can help others.
2. However, those who are like-minded and have the same goal can help each other. In the above example, others can lift someone and make him advance to help him get out.
- Soon after attaining Buddhahood, the Buddha started seeking those who helped him in his efforts (in his past lives). See “Animisa Locana Bodhi Poojawa – A Prelude to Acts of Gratitude.”
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