[dosakkhayo]

Is universe a closed system? Since mind creates the Suddhatthaka, shouldn’t it be considered an open system?

[Lal]

These questions do not help attain Nibbana. 

From the “Acinteyya Sutta (AN 4.77)“:

“There are these four things that are not to be conjectured about, that could make one go mad (become a mental patient). Which four?

• The Buddha-range (i.e., Buddha’s knowledge).
• The subject of jhana (including kinds of supernormal powers that one can attain).
• The precise workings of the results of kamma.
• Speculation about the world 
  These are the four unthinkable things. They should not be thought about; anyone who tries to think about them will get mad or frustrated.”

The question falls under the last category. What is the benefit of discovering whether the universe is closed?

• Humans are curious about these things, but it is not a good idea to spend time on that. Buddha Dhamma is deep enough.

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dosakkhayo

[dosakkhayo]

Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!

[Tobi-Wan Kenobi]

**Hello Dosakkayo,**

The universe is neither an open system nor a closed system. Based on your question, the universe and the Self are infinite, although it is neither finite nor infinite. It is conditioned by the *Anatta* and *Anicca* nature.

For a better understanding, a more detailed consideration of the **„Brahmajālasutta“** would be necessary (DN 1/3.1.1, Eternal), and there it says: *„The self and the cosmos are eternal, barren, stable like a mountain peak, firm like a pillar.“*

*„sassatattā attā ca loko ca vañjho kūṭaṭṭho esikaṭṭhāyiṭṭhito;“*

In this statement, four assertions about the universe are included:
1. The self
2. The cosmos
3. Barren
4. Stable, like a mountain peak, firm like a pillar.

And there are other basics. Now, we could formulate more hypotheses about the past and the future based on these 62 fundamentals, as in (DN 1/4.1, Bending and Evasion), in which your question regarding thermodynamic properties can also be included.

We could now incorporate your hypothesis regarding whether it is an open or closed system, and the answer would be:

„Since the one who is clear-minded understands the origin, cessation, satisfaction, disadvantage, and escape in regard to feelings, he is liberated through non-clinging.“

*Vedanānaṁ samudayañca atthaṅgamañca assādañca ādīnavañca nissaraṇañca yathābhūtaṁ viditvā anupādāvimutto, bhikkhave, tathāgato.*

The root cause of such a question can be traced back to *Tanha* (clinging), and it is explained by the cause in point four of the Sutta (DN 1/4.4, Dependent Origination). This point is as follows:

**4.4. Diṭṭhigatikādhiṭṭhānavaṭṭakathā**

The term „Diṭṭhigatikādhiṭṭhānavaṭṭakathā“ is a compound Magadhi word. Let’s break it down into its components:

1. **Diṭṭhigatika**: 
*Diṭṭhi* means “views”, “opinions”, or “beliefs”. 
*Gati* means “character” or “movement”. 
Together, *Diṭṭhigatikā* could be understood as “the way of the character’s view” or “the direction of one’s own opinions”, indicating a philosophical or psychological stance.

2. **Adhiṭṭhāna**: 
*Adhiṭṭhāna* means “determination”, “intention”, or “set resolve”. It can also be understood as “establishment” or “purpose”.

3. **Vaṭṭa**: 
*Vaṭṭa* means “circle”, “cyclical process”, or “cycle”. It could refer to a continuous cycle or process in the sense of *Paṭicca Samuppāda* (Dependent Origination).

4. **Kathā**: 
*Kathā* means “narrative” or “discussion”.

„Diṭṭhigatikādhiṭṭhānavaṭṭakathā“ could thus be understood as a term meaning “narrative or discussion about the cycle of tendencies caused by wrong views and the fixed determination brought about by character.” It is an important concept that discusses the effects of *Gati* (character) and *Diṭṭhi* (views) on the human mind and rebirth, and how these beliefs work in a cycle of *Paṭicca Samuppāda*—the interconnectedness of causes and effects.

**Conclusion:** 
Therefore, the universe is neither an open nor a closed system because it is based on *Paṭicca Samuppāda* and possesses the nature of *Anicca*, *Dukkha*, and *Anatta*.

Finally, we could now read point 5 of the Sutta, **DN 1/5, **:

„It is incredible, Sir, it is amazing! What is the name of this teaching?“ 
*„acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante, ko nāmo ayaṁ, bhante, dhammapariyāyo?“*

„Now, Ānanda(Dosakkayo), you should remember this teaching as ‘The Net of Meaning’ or ‘The Net of the Dhamma’ or ‘The Divine Net’ or ‘The Net of Views’ or ‘The Incomparable Victory in Battle.’“ It is not unusual to find multiple names for a single Sutta, and here we see that this practice originated with the Buddha himself. However, when it is mentioned in (SN 41.3:2.4 and in Kd 21) (at the end of the first section), it is always referred to as *Brahmajāla*. (Sujato)

*„Tasmātiha tvaṁ, ānanda, imaṁ dhammapariyāyaṁ atthajālantipi naṁ dhārehi, dhammajālantipi naṁ dhārehi, brahmajālantipi naṁ dhārehi, diṭṭhijālantipi naṁ dhārehi, anuttaro saṅgāmavijayotipi naṁ dhārehī.“*

I hope this answer doesn’t sound like a lecture, as I myself am delighted by the answer I found and compiled through your question.

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dosakkhayo

[Jittananto]

Hello Dosakkhayo, go see the Rohitassa sutta to get a good understanding.

Rohitassa was an anariya yogi who died while searching for the end of the universe, long before the Bodhisatta was born. He travelled widely, using his abhinna powers, for a hundred years. Eventually, his body could no longer withstand the pressure, and he died. After his death, he was reborn as Brahma. He then approached Lord Buddha to seek the answer to whether the end of the universe exists.

Just as Sir Lal pointed out, this is one of the unthinkable topics. Yogis of the past tried to reach the end of the universe with Abhinnas powers and all died before reaching their goals. It is impossible to reach the end of the universe. Lord Buddha said that it is by attaining Nibbāna that one reaches the end of the universe.

The end of the world can never

Gamanena na pattabbo,

be reached by traveling.

lokassanto kudācanaṁ;

But without reaching the end of the world,

Na ca appatvā lokantaṁ,

there’s no release from suffering.

dukkhā atthi pamocanaṁ.

So an intelligent person, understanding the world,

Tasmā have lokavidū sumedho,

has completed the spiritual journey, and gone to the end of the world.

Lokantagū vusitabrahmacariyo;

A calm one, knowing the end of the world,

Lokassa antaṁ samitāvi ñatvā,

does not hope for this world or the next.”

Nāsīsatī lokamimaṁ parañcā”ti. 

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Yash RS

[Lal]

The following post also provides more information about this subject:

“Loka Sutta – Origin and Cessation of the World“

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Jittananto, Yash RS

[Jittananto]

Thank you for this post, sir🙏🏿

[Author]

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