[Sammasambodhi Gami]

Hii everyone

May the blessings of the Triple Gem be with you always !

The 5 hindrances are only suppressed (but not removed) during anariya jhanas.

However by attaining the stages of Nibbana (Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami, Arahant), the hindrances are successively REMOVED from the mind.

In the post – The key to calming the Mind – the five hindrances, Ven. Lal Sir mentioned that vicikiccha and thin-midha are completely removed at the Sotapanna stage. And kamcchanda and byapada are reduced to kama raga and pathigha respectively.
Also uddhacca-kukkucca is reduced to uddhacca.

But at some websites (like this one), it is mentioned that at the Sotapanna stage, only vicikiccha is removed. Then kamacchanda (or kama raga), byapada (or pathigha) and kukkucca are removed at the Anagami stage. And finally, thin-midha and uddhacca are removed at the Arahant stage.

So which one of these is correct ?

Can you please give a reference from the Tipitaka for the support of your answer ?

Thanks

[cubibobi]

Hi all,

I certainly do not know which sources are correct concerning which hindrances are removed at which stage of magga phala.

I do have a question on vicikiccā since I’m working toward the sotapanna stage. Almost everywhere (including the link from C. Saket) explains vicikiccā as “sceptical doubt”, i.e. doubt about the the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, the training, etc.

Over the weekend, I listened to a desana from a well-known bhante about the hindrances, and again vicikiccā was explained as “doubt”.

In many posts, including The key to calming the Mind – the five hindrances mentioned above by C. Saket, Lal has explained vicikiccā clearly (with the Pali breakdown), and I don’t see the meaning of “doubt” in it. I wonder where it came from; the Vishudimagga?

Best,
Lang

[Lal]

Somehow I missed the original question from Saket. Thanks for bringing it up Lang.

I realize that I have not really done a comprehensive post on vicikicchā (and the related word, kaṅkhā).

Vicikicchā is perplexity, not knowing what actions are needed.
– Kaṅkhā is “not taking seriously Buddha’s teachings”, for example, about kamma leading to vipaka, or about the validity of the rebirth process, or about the anicca nature, etc).
– Both arise because of sakkaya ditthi. Silabbata paramasa also is due to sakkaya ditthi. One needs to get a good idea of what is meant by “me” or “self”. That is why I started the new series on the “Origin of Life”.

There is a good sutta that can give an idea about vicikicchā and kaṅkhā.
“Vakkali Sutta (SN 22.87)“.
– Not so good English translation: “Vakkali“.

Here is the relevant portion of the sutta:
“Tena hāvuso, mama vacanena bhagavato pāde sirasā vandatha: ‘vakkali, bhante, bhikkhu ābādhiko dukkhito bāḷhagilāno. So bhagavato pāde sirasā vandatī’ti.
Translated: “Well then, friends, pay homage to the Blessed One in my name with your head at his feet and say: ‘Venerable sir, the bhikkhu Vakkali is sick, afflicted, gravely ill; he pays homage to the Blessed One with his head at his feet.’

Evañca vadetha: ‘rūpaṃ aniccaṃ. Tāhaṃ, bhante, na kaṅkhāmi. Yadaniccaṃ taṃ dukkhanti na vicikicchāmi. Yadaniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipari¬ṇāma¬dhammaṃ, natthi me tattha chando vā rāgo vā pemaṃ vāti na vicikicchāmi.
Translated: Then say: ‘Form (rupa) is aniccā (cannot be maintained to one’s satisfaction): I do not reject that out-of-hand (na kaṅkhāmi), venerable sir, I have no perplexity (vicikicchāmi) about the fact that whatever is aniccā, leads to suffering. I do not doubt that in regard to what is aniccā is suffering and subject to change (yad aniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ), I have no more desire, lust, or affection and I have no perplexity about that (na vicikicchāmi).

Vedanā aniccā. Tāhaṃ, bhante, na kaṅkhāmi. Yadaniccaṃ taṃ dukkhanti na vicikicchāmi. Yadaniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipari¬ṇāma¬dhammaṃ, natthi me tattha chando vā rāgo vā pemaṃ vāti na vicikicchāmi.
Translated: ‘Vedana aniccā (cannot be maintained to one’s satisfaction): I do not reject that out-of-hand (na kaṅkhāmi), venerable sir, I have no perplexity (vicikicchāmi) about the fact that whatever is aniccā, leads to suffering. I do not doubt that in regard to what is aniccā is suffering and subject to change (yad aniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ), I have no more desire, lust, or affection and I have no perplexity about that (na vicikicchāmi).

Saññā … saṅkhārā aniccā. Tāhaṃ, bhante, na kaṅkhāmi. Yadaniccaṃ taṃ dukkhanti na vicikicchāmi. Yadaniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ, natthi me tattha chando vā rāgo vā pemaṃ vāti na vicikicchāmi. Viññāṇaṃ aniccaṃ. Tāhaṃ, bhante, na kaṅkhāmi. Yadaniccaṃ taṃ dukkhanti na vicikicchāmi. Yadaniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ, natthi me tattha chando vā rāgo vā pemaṃ vāti na vicikicchāmī’”ti.
Translated:Same as above for sanna, sankhara, and viññāṇa.

When one gets rid of sakkaya ditthi, one loses cravings for the five aggregates. As we can see from above, that also leads to the removal of vicikicchā (and kaṅkhā), and also silabbata paramasa (that one cannot attain Nibbana just by living a moral life; one needs to understand the anicca nature).

I will try to make a new post (or re-write an existing post) when I have time. Please feel free to ask questions.

[Author]

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