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Are drugs a mind-made vedana? They do not pass through any of the 5 senses, but change the biochemistry of the body.
Let’s say we inject an arahant with morphine. Will he feel pleasure? My guess is yes, since his dopamine will spike and dopamine is very closely linked to pleasure. However, an arahant would have eliminated mind-made vedana!
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All the bodily reactions are same even if someone becomes an Arahant. He would still feel all those physical feelings but won’t have any feeling of Mental Pleasure. He won’t crave for that experience either.
Just like if we eat a chocolate without any craving, we will feel the taste but no mental Pleasure.
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The physical body of an Arahant is subject to the same biochemistry as any other human body.
- Of course, an Arahant would not consume any drugs or alcohol. But if he did, the biochemical reactions in the body would be the same.
We need to remember that the workings of kammic energy dictate “nature’s laws.” All biochemical processes take place according to kammic laws.
- Both mental and physical bodies in human bhava (any bhava) are according to the gati that led to grasping that human bhava in kama loka.
- One’s gati are according to the (abhi)sankhara cultivated. That lead to “bhava paccaya jati” according to Paticca Samuppada (“pati iccha” leading to “sama uppada.”) That is a critical outcome of Paticca Samuppada.
- See “Paṭicca Samuppāda – “Pati+ichcha”+“Sama+uppāda”
- This is a critical point to understand.
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Then why isit possible for the biochemistry to change the gati?
There is a famous example of a huge personality change of Gage after an accident of a rod passing through his skull:
“Popular reports of Gage often depict him as a hardworking, pleasant man before the accident. Post-accident, these reports describe him as a changed man, suggesting that the injury had transformed him into a surly, aggressive heavy drinker who was unable to hold down a job.”
”In a 1994 study, researchers utilized neuroimaging techniques to reconstruct Phineas Gage’s skull and determine the exact placement of the injury. Their findings indicate that he suffered injuries to both the left and right prefrontal cortices, which would result in problems with emotional processing and rational decision-making.9”
Would you say that it is a kamma vipaka to change his gati? If an arahant is subject to the same accident, would he have a similar result?
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“Would you say that it is a kamma vipaka to change his gati? If an arahant is subject to the same accident, would he have a similar result?”
1. An Arahant has no “gati” left. So, it is not possible to talk about changing “gati” of an Arahant.
- Please keep in mind that we are talking about “defiled gati.”
2. There are only five major “gati,” but there can be many minor varieties within them: “Gati Sutta (AN 9.68).”
- An Arahant was born with “human (or manussa) gati.” But upon attaining the Arahant stage, not only his “manussa gati” but also the possibility of acquiring any other major gati types (niraya, tiracchānayoni, pettivisayo, or, devā) were all eliminated.
- Of course, niraya, tiracchānayoni, pettivisayo belong to the apayas. The devā category includes the six Deva realms and 20 rupa loka and arupa loka Brahma realms.
- It may need some serious contemplation.
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- The brain sends sensory signals to the manomaya kaya.
- The signals reach the hadaya vatthu.
- It reads the signals and make responds.
Damage to the brain alters the system in step 1.
Gati should be dealt with in step 3. Because it is a mental quality.
An Arahant does not have any defiled gati, so they will not cling to anything in step 3 despite brain damage.
However, a puthujjana might trigger different anusaya/sangati due to different sensory inputs resulting from the damage in step 1.
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Yes. Excellent explanation.
Another way to look at it is as follows.
(1) Upon attaining the Arahant stage, the mental body (manomaya kaya/gandhabba) undergoes a HUGE change. All anusaya/samyojana/gati are eliminated.
(2) However, while undergoing some changes, the physical body still lives as a human body and is subjected to decay and death as for any other human. Thus, an Arahant would feel pain if injured and still generate “distorted sannas” based on other sensory inputs. Of course, such “distorted sanna” cannot lead to a defiled mind because all anusaya/samyojana/gati have been eliminated. In other words, all biochemical processes would be the same as for other humans, but a defiled mind can never arise!
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Thank you, I am now clearer on the implications for the arahant. I came up with the following thoughts from the discussion:
In the scientific community it is quite established that the prefrontal cortex is responsible for planning and decision making. Hence it seems like the prefrontal cortex plays an “output, executive function”, eg other parts of the brain receives sights, sounds, then the prefrontal cortex carries out the decision.
dosakkhayo:
- The brain sends sensory signals to the manomaya kaya.
- The signals reach the hadaya vatthu.
- It reads the signals and make responds.
Damage to the brain alters the system in step 1.
Gati should be dealt with in step 3. Because it is a mental quality.
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From what you say it seems that even the prefrontal cortex plays a “receiving” function instead of an executive, decision making one! To try to fit in the context of dhamma, Gage could have become “a surly, aggressive heavy drinker who was unable to hold down a job” with damage to the prefrontal cortex because the inputs to his mind has be tweaked, eg the inputs to his mind does not have the long term consequences.
His gati has not changed, just that whatever his mind is receiving changes. Hence it is not that his sanna changed even though he is seeing less long term consequences, it is that the input to the mind itself does not have long term consequences. Which is why for an arahant, even with damage to the prefrontal cortex, he does not need input of long-term consequences because his mind would inherently know what is the right thing to do. Would this be an accurate explanation?
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Excellent observations, Pathfinder!
You wrote: “From what you say it seems that even the prefrontal cortex plays a “receiving” function instead of an executive, decision making one! To try to fit in the context of dhamma, Gage could have become “a surly, aggressive heavy drinker who was unable to hold down a job” with damage to the prefrontal cortex because the inputs to his mind has be tweaked, eg the inputs to his mind does not have the long term consequences.
His gati has not changed, just that whatever his mind is receiving changes. Hence it is not that his sanna changed even though he is seeing less long term consequences, it is that the input to the mind itself does not have long term consequences. Which is why for an arahant, even with damage to the prefrontal cortex, he does not need input of long-term consequences because his mind would inherently know what is the right thing to do. Would this be an accurate explanation?”
- Yes. It is! I will write a bit more on that later today.
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Some relevant points:
1. The neocortex in the brain can carry out some (habitual) bodily functions. It can analyze “incoming sensory data to the brain” and control some functions without the mind (hadaya vatthu) getting involved. A good example is driving to work or school, which one repeats day after day. Neural connections for that activity get stronger with repeated use; it can happen automatically without the mind getting involved after a while. Sometimes, we drive to work while thinking about something else (or while in a serious discussion with a passenger) and still get there safely.
- The neural networks in Artificial Intelligence (AI) work similarly. In this case, AI can learn from millions of people’s driving habits fed (via video) by its programmers. Thus, “self-driving car technology” has the potential to be better than any single driver. However, there is no “intelligence” involved in this case. The technology would be as good as the information it gets in the training phase.
2. The information that the “seat of the mind” (hadaya vatthu) gets is determined by the health of the brain. This is why older people start having memory issues with age when the brain function gradually diminishes. Specific problems with the brain, like Alzheimer’s disease, can change one’s personality.
- The case of Phineas Gage that you mentioned is another example. Damage to certain areas of his brain led to a change in his personality.
This is a complex but fascinating subject. I will write about it in a post one day when I have the time.
P.S. The point here is that whatever happens to the brain becomes irrelevant after one attains the Arahant stage. The mind can NEVER become defiled again, whether the brain sends it the wrong information (or even no information.)
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