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Hello All,
From the post “What are rūpa? – Dhammā are rūpa too!“, in section #8, it states:
“Kamma beeja — that are generated by our minds (via our thoughts) — are also part of dhammā. They bring kamma vipāka back to (us) from time to time. These are what we think of as “random thoughts” that come to us about things and people. Those dhammā are not coarse enough to be “seeing (seen)” even with abhiññā powers”
So among the women in my family, we can “see” (not see, but know) what the other is thinking (dhammā). Especially, when one of us is feeling sad. But, my daughter and I “know” each others thoughts. For example, if I look at a playing card, she can tell me what it is, not just one, but the whole deck.
If this is not abhiññā powers, is it possible that family members share the same mind plane? Or is there some other mechanism of the mind that’s occurring here?
With metta,
Donna :) -
Very interesting, Donna! Thank you for sharing this interesting information.
These are called punna iddhi, which basically means (moderate) supernormal powers that certain people get at birth, due to previous meritorious deeds.
They can vary widely. Some with such capabilities can see living beings with fine bodies, such as devas or gandhabbas (They ususally call them ghosts). Some can get one’s own gandhabba to come out of the physical body (this is called astral travel, and is more common). Some can remember previous lives, etc.
But this is the first time I heard about being able to read the whole stack of cards another person is holding, just by the person holding the cards look at just one card. This is more complex than the above cases that I mentioned, because this involves two people.
The only case I know something like this is the abilities of Waharaka Thero. I have not met him, but he has mentioned some cases in his desanas.
Basically, one’s “mano loka” (mind plane) can be accessed by oneself only. As one’s mind is purified, one’s ability to remember things gets better. Then at some point, one may be able to see many lives in the past.
The ability to access another’s mind plane is harder. You said the women in your family can do this. So, any given person has this ability? Can you also do this if a non-family member is holding the cards? Any other information would be good, only if you feel comfortable.
Furthermore, is there any difference between your capabilities and any one of those family members? -
Even as a young child I remember having thoughts and my mom would speak the very same thought within seconds. We now live 1,500 miles apart and she knows instantly when something is wrong, knows the subject matter and is contacting me.
It’s best with my younger daughter, when she cries, I cry and know eventually that it’s her I need to talk to. I know when my daughters are in trouble, which is painful b/c mostly I can’t help at that moment.
With the cards, I haven’t tried it with anyone else, but her older sister. She can do it too, but it’s too weird for her.
I’ve noticed that if I think about another person, even non-family (but significantly involved with), will call/contact me and tell me how they were just thinking about me. This is why it seems as if there’s some type of sharing going on in the mental plane or something. I don’t do it with my sister or brothers, but my two daughters know each others thoughts. It’s like you’ve heard about twins knowing what’s going with each other, like a non-verbal communication method. Possibly the gandhabba is out of the shell??
I don’t know if this ties into it or not, but both my younger daughter and I, see/know future events. I’ve seen as far as a month out and she knows more immediate info. It’s a gift for a high school girl to stay out of trouble! Maybe the ability to know future events is causing thoughts/mano sankhara (vaci and kaya sankhara)? Then, it just happens and we know each others thoughts!???
:)
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Amazing! Do future events appear like vivid imagery in your mind? Or do you actually see the events unfold right in front of your eyes before the eventuality?
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Johnny ask “Do future events appear like vivid imagery in your mind? Or do you actually see the events unfold right in front of your eyes before the eventuality?”
It’s images and a knowing. For example, my daughter went to Thailand last summer to teach English and on one of their excursions they went to a temple and visited with monks. They were to bring questions for the monks to answer. I gave her some challenging questions to ask, then shortly after I saw the event…the classroom, a young monk answering questions and an older monk off to the side silently watching and smiling. After coming back, she reported the event just as I saw it.
Many times it is just a knowing, deaths, police officers on the highway ahead giving speeding tickets, warnings, etc.
Lal, regarding the experiment. We’ll try it later this week. It takes focus and for her to put down her school work and relax a bit.
So, does anyone have any thoughts on the idea of shared mind space?
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Johnny said: “Do future events appear like vivid imagery in your mind?”
I can describe a recent experience of mine to give an idea of probably what Donna (inflib) sees. May be Donna can describe the difference in what she “sees” and what I describe below.
I was meditating with my eyes closed. All of a sudden, I started “seeing” a whirlpool. It was not a static picture. It was as if I was seeing a rotating whirlpool, with the water spinning. Then the scene evolved into a flowing mass of water. It was crystal clear, even though I had my eyes closed. That was at the end of last December. Since then I have seen the same thing twice. I don’t know what that is about (and why I keep seeing the same thing).
With that experience, now I can relate to Waharaka Thero’s experiences and Donna’s. You actually “see” things with your eyes closed. It is much more vivid and much more “real” compared to dreaming. It was as if I was looking at a real whirlpool, and then seeing a flowing mass of water (I did not see anything else other than water). Waharaka Thero, for example, had the capability to just focus on someone’s house (far away), and “see” the house as it is, for example.
This must be how gandhabbas also “see” things. Many people who have described their Out of Body Experiences (OBE) must have “seen” their own bodies from the above this way; usually that happens in heart operations when the gandhabba is “forced out” due to stress. Remember that most of these people are not even Buddhists.
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You said, ” For example, if I look at a playing card, she can tell me what it is, not just one, but the whole deck.”
Can you do the following experiment?
You pick up 10 random cards from the pack without looking. You should look at just one card within those 10 cards. Then, as I understand, she should be able to tell the identity of all 10 cards that you have in you hand?
If so, ask her to write down on a piece of paper the identity of the 10 cards. Then you look at the 10 cards and write them down too. Then compare whether they match.
Do you need to be face-to-face to do this or can you do it over the phone too?
It would be amazing if she can do it over the phone, even if you are looking at all 10 cards that you are holding.May be I did not understand exactly what you were saying. If I did, then that would be a good experiment to do.
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I can also report a “seeing event” like Lal had with the “whirlpool”. At night I woke up and suddenly found myself in outer space surrounded by flower blossoms and turning around. That was such a beautiful moment, full of love and silence. The “seeing” was very clear, much better than dreaming. Then the scene changed to seeing stars at the firmament and they also started rotating fast. I could focus on the scene and thus see more details how they turn. This evolved again to another turning green cloud of stars, which I could focus again and the observation of crystal clear movements was possible.
I guess such an event can happen due to cleansing the mind. There was never such an event in my life before learning Dhamma. -
Tobias said: “At night I woke up and suddenly found myself in outer space surrounded by flower blossoms and turning around..”
Is it possible that you were actually out there in space, with the gandhabba body?
In my case, I am positive that did not happen. I could open my eyes and see that I was in my room. Then I closed my eyes and was able to see it again. So, I never had the gandhabba coming out.
By the way, your description reminded me of the accounts of Robert Monroe in his book, “Journeys Out of the Body”. He has written several books about his “out of body experiences”.
I hope these discussions would not deviate out attention from focusing on Dhamma. But it is good to know that such experiences may happen. I never strive for any such experiences. If they happen, they happen.
Furthermore, it may never happen to some people. So, this is NOT to be taken as a REQUIREMENT. I hesitated to write about my experience because of this. We must remember that there were Arahants, who never even had a jhanic experience even; see, for example, the Susima Sutta.
By the way, Sutta Central has changed its sutta format. I liked the previous format, but may be they will make this better with time.
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Hello all:
A distinction should be made when talking of ‘supranormal seeing’ or clairvoyance, one that is relevant to the topic of determinism/ non-determinism
‘Seeing’ cards face down ,knowing what is happening in another place,even seeing what realm a being has attained(dibba-cakkhu) involve seeing the present, here or elsewhere. What of future events? As far as I have read that is not included in the 6 abhinna powers.
The foreknowing is accompanied by a sense of absolute certainty, the facts will later only confirm it ( to others; to yourself there will be no need of that), so, who is it who knows beforehand, someone else or something or some part of you or in yourself? And if it is known, then it follows that at least some events in what to us is the future have already happened ‘elsewhere’ or as far as somebody else is concerned. They are already ‘set’. Who is this who knows?
I can give one instance (the others have to do with local events). August 1978. A thought comes when I am fully awake. “The three popes
612”. Paul 6th dies within days, to be succeeeded by JP 1, in turn succeeded by JP2. There were three popes inside 2 months or so. Now I am not one into church things, far from it, so this struck me as quite a surprise. Had it been something to do with astronomy, for instance, something like : 3 planets Epsilon Eridani, that would have fitted in with ‘me’.Your thoughts please.
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Lal ask to conduct an experiment. What I’ve realized is the ability to know what’s being thought is when we’re talking in our heads. So, the energy is more dense (vaci sankhara rupa) as opposed to mano sankhara that come unconsciously.
For example, I look at the card and say “four” in my head, in an instant she tells me it’s a “four”. On the other hand, if I just look at the card w/o speaking it in my head, she doesn’t know.
Regarding knowing future events, I’ve come to realize they’re set (dense rupa) events. As described above in my daughter’s trip to the Buddhist temple. This event was set up previously and not likely to change, therefore, it has established dense rupa that can be seen. Just like events that are going to happen within 24 hours, the events are already established and can be seen.
:)
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Inflib said: “So, the energy is more dense (vaci sankhara rupa) as opposed to mano sankhara that come unconsciously.” AND
“For example, I look at the card and say “four” in my head, in an instant she tells me it’s a “four”. On the other hand, if I just look at the card w/o speaking it in my head, she doesn’t know.”That makes sense. When you consciously think “it is a “four”, that makes it a vaci sankhara, versus just seeing that it is a “four” which is a mano sankhara.
Regarding y not‘s question: “What of future events?”. Some people do get premonitions (strong feelings) of what is about to happen in the future. That may or may not turn out to be correct. However, for some, chances of “getting it right” are higher.
Unless it is a “niyata vivarana” that a Buddha gives to a Bodhisatva, no future event can be predicted with certainty.
For example, once there was going to be a war between two factions (say X and Y). Bhikkhus asked Ven. Sariputta who was going to win the war, and some months later his prediction (X) turned out to be wrong. The bhikkhus went to the Buddha and asked why Ven. Sariputta could not get it right. The Buddha said that Ven. Sariputta was right at THAT TIME, that X were going to win the war based on the conditions at THAT TIME. But since then conditions changed.
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