[Johnny_Lim]

Lal has inspired me to write this post.

Did The Buddha Teach About Stopping Thoughts?

On the surface, one might be led to think that practising the path is all about stopping thoughts and other mental activities. After all, the characteristics of Nibbana are no thought, thinking, feeling, and consciousness. True, nirodha samapatti does have that kind of effects, which is the closest Nibbanic experience an Anagami or an Arahant can get while he or she is still alive. But let us not forget that the Buddha taught only 2 things – suffering and the end of suffering.

All the Dhamma preached by the Buddha is to help us purify our defiled minds to rid them of lust, hatred, and delusion. With the absence of these 3 defilements, it is Nibbana. Simple as that. The non presence of thoughts, perception, feeling, and consciousness is just a ‘by-product’ of what a Nibbanic state can do to our mind. But that does not imply that the Buddha was preaching about stopping thoughts and other mental activities.

I shall illustrate my point using 2 simple analogies. The first one is hunger versus non-hunger to depict suffering versus non-suffering. When we are hungry, we need to eat food to contain our hunger. And when we eat food, it is inevitable that we will cognise and discern the food that we taste. Which means seeing, smelling, tasting, and touching the food become the by-products of this eating process. We do not contain our hunger by seeing, smelling, tasting, and touching. We do that by eating food.

In the second example, I would like to use sickness versus health to depict suffering versus non-suffering. In order not to fall sick easily, one engages in a regular exercise regime to boost his immunity. By so doing, this person has built a well toned physique. The by-product here is a beautiful body to look at. But that is not the objective of this person. He wanted to stay healthy for as long as he could. The nice body is just a result of his effort.

So, it is very clear from the above 2 examples that the by-products are not what we should strive for. Similarly, zero thought, perception, feeling, and consciousness are also by-products of Nibbana. The end product of our spiritual practice is Nibbana, not the accompanying by-products.

[Lal]

1. There are 4 ultimate realities: thoughts, mental factors (cetasika), matter (rupa), and Nibbana. The first three belong to “the world”, and when one escapes from the world one attains Nibbana:
The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma – Introduction

2. Thus thoughts about the material world cease when an Arahant attains Parinibbana or anupadisesa Nibbana. It is also experienced with Nirodha Samapatti.

3. However, one cannot attain Nibbana by forcefully suppressing thoughts. That will lead to rebirth in the Asanna realm, since avijja is not removed.

One needs to think clearly and mindfully to attain Nibbana. As Johnny says, one needs to realize the real nature of this world by contemplating on the Tilakkhana, the three characteristics of nature. Those are revealed only by a Buddha, and thus one needs to come across the correct meanings of them first:
Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta

[sybe07]

Maybe MN19 is helpful?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html

kind regards,
Siebe

[Akvan]

The following sutta also explains that one should not stop all thoughts.
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn1.24

[sybe07]

I think the answer is no real yes or no.

The sutta’s talk, for example, about things which are difficult to correct. One of those things, and i find this very recognisable, is mental distraction. Mindfulness of breathing is to be developed for abandoning mental distraction.
(AN6.115)

Mental distraction, i belief, comes with delusion. We become so easy involved in all these arising mental formations, like thoughts, plans, intentions, views. That proces of getting involved in those arising mental phenomena does something with mind. It is not easy to see this khandha with wisdom, ‘this i am not, this is not mine, not myself’. Most of the time, while these formations arise, there is an immediately grasping at those formations as ‘mine’. This is also called monkey mind. A monkey grasps a branch and then another. Mind does that too. There is constantly a grasping of this or that. We do not do this. It is a self-less proces. There is no self or I behind it.

Another sutta says one should develop mindfulness of breathing to cut of thoughts (AN9.1)

siebe

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