[rrkk01]

I just want to confirm something to get a clearer picture, please correct me if I am wrong.

Gandhabba can be destroyed, but not forever. Rather, they can get dismantled by powerful beings and then accumulates again at some point in the future. So in the 31 realms of existence they will be reborn in the realm of unconscious beings. This is the origin of the belief of emergentism, that conscious beings arises and emerge from material things. This is of course one of the unrealised horrors of samsara, even if you get “annihilated”, you will be born again sometime in the future, maybe it will take eons (billions and billions of years) for it to happen, but in the end you are back to square one, unless the kamma vinnana creation via abhisankhara is gone and extinguished permanently (achieving Nibbana).

Some astetics also might be able to be born in the realm of unconscious beings if they meditate on the “elements of the universe” (e.g. thinking that they are one with rocks or water for example), so if I am right, this practice is in fact very useless since it results in being reborn as “immaterial things” and then wake up again at square one, despite the nice wording of uniting with the universe or whatever it is, there is no possible way you can achieve magga phala while on this state, so in the long run perhaps this is the most useless kind of existence, it’s like a pause suffering button. Samsara is truly a giant cosmic horror story.

So if I’m right, meditating to be completely unconscious will in fact make you temporarily “gone” from existence after the body breaks up, so does being destroyed by a more powerful being.

[Lal]

“Gandhabba can be destroyed, but not forever. Rather, they can get dismantled by powerful beings and then accumulates again at some point in the future.”

• A gandhabba cannot be “destroyed” by any “powerful being.” 
• When getting a “human existence” a “human gandhabba” is born and can live for many thousands of years. That gandhabba will be pulled into the womb of a woman and be born a baby to grow into a human. When that human dies within hundred years or so, the gandhabba does not die. It comes out of the dead body. It can be pulled into another womb and that process can go on until the lifetime of the gandhabba ends.
• The only way that gandhabba can die before the end of its lifetime is as follows. If a human carrying that gandhabba commits an anatarika kamma then when that human physical body dies the gandhabba will also die. 
• See “Ānantarika Kamma – Connection to Gandhabba.”

“..even if you get “annihilated”, you will be born again sometime in the future, maybe it will take eons (billions and billions of years) for it to happen,..”

• There is no gap between lives. When a human gandhabba dies, it will reborn in one of other realms or in the realm immediately. 
• See “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“

“.. this practice is in fact very useless since it results in being reborn as “immaterial things” “

• A lifeform (human, animal, Deva, etc.) cannot be reborn an “immaterial thing” like a rock. Rebirths are ALWAYS within the 31 realms. See “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“

“Samsara is truly a giant cosmic horror story.”

• That is true!

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rrkk01, Jittananto

[Yash RS]

How do people have birth marks from past life injuries?

 

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rrkk01, Jittananto

[Lal]

A traumatic event probably strongly affects the gandhabba‘s mental state. That may manifest in the new human body.

• Some people who had died by drowning in their previous lives get terrified when seeing a large body of water and are scared of swimming.
• Some chronic headaches have been cured by “life regression therapy.” Google that and see. 

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rrkk01, Jittananto, Yash RS

[cubibobi]

In the 31 realms, there IS a realm of unconscious beings, but it’s not inanimate “elements of the universe”. It’s the asañña brahma realm where there is no citta vithi flowing (thus no consciousness). Somewhere on this site, this realm is likened to being under anesthesia, and your analogy of the “pause suffering” button of a cosmic horror story is quite apt in my opinion.

Also on this site, perhaps under the meditation section, Lal cautioned against a type of practice to STOP thoughts. And I have seen people attempting this, as if thoughts are the obstacles to real peace of mind. Perhaps this type of practice can lead to rebirth in the asañña realm.

To build on your analogy of samsara as a horror movie, I’d like to think of the deva realms and brahma realms (other than  asañña which is the “pause”) as the “happy” parts of the movie. The movie can have neutral or happy sections, yet we know that the horror part (apāyā) will happen sooner or later, and that it is the dominant feature of the movie.

Best,
Lang

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rrkk01, Jittananto

[rrkk01]

Mr Lal, I wonder what is the reasoning behind your statement that a gandhabba cannot be “destroyed”, after all, they are just matter that can be separated from each other (like a human body being separated from all its limbs) and they are also compossed of dhamma, which all have anatta nature, which means they don’t have innate essence to them and are only compossed of collections upon collections of fine matter making the illusion of “one” ultimate being and essence while they are all actually like rivers of matter that keeps changing parts every moment or so.

In my mind, in the case of a gandhabba getting “disasembled”, they will just be instantly born again according to their kamma vinnana or cuti patisandhi in the appropriate realms, one of them might be in the asanna realm in some special cases.

I still can’t quite get this minor thing yet.

[Lal]

I am not certain whether it is the following post that Lang had in mind, but it discusses that issue about the asañña realm.

“Memory Recall for Gandhabba in a Human Body.”

[Lal]

Regarding rrkk01’s question above:

It is correct that gandhabba is also made of matter. In fact, a gandhabba is made of the smallest elements of matter called “suddhatthaka.” 

• Contrary to mundane thinking, sometimes “lighter things” are more stable than heavy things. For example, anything dense, like rocks and even metal, can be burned at high enough temperatures. However, even at such high temperatures, air molecules are not burned. 
• In another example, dense things like metal sheets can be cut by saws or laser light. However, air molecules cannot be cut like that.

A gandhabba can be created ONLY by kammic energy and destroyed ONLY by the mechanisms I mentioned earlier.

• The essence of a gandhabba is the hadaya vatthu (seat of the mind) and five pasada rupa. Those are very special entities because it is not that bit of matter, but they also have the following unique capabilities:
• A hadaya vatthu is the ONLY entity in this world that can generate thoughts (citta). Five pasada rupa are the only things in this world that can detect sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and touch sensations.
• Our eyes, ears, etc., only bring signals from the external world into the physical body, and the brain only processes such information. Then, those signals are transmitted by the brain to the gandhabba. Hadaya vatthu of the gandhabba receives those signals via the five pasada rupa and, in turn, generates citta (thoughts) in response. See “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body“

P.S. All existences (lives) start with a manomaya kaya (“mind-made body”) with a hadaya vatthu and up to five pasada rupa.

• There is no “gap”, i.e, a lifestream ALWAYS has a manomaya kaya. For example, if a human existence ends with the death of a human gandhabba, and if the next existence is in the animal realm, then an animal gandhabba is born at the moment that human gandhabba dies.
• The manomaya kaya is called a gandhabba only in the human and animal realms. That is because only in those two realms that dense physical bodies arise subsequently based on that gandhabba.
• In the Deva realms, the gandhabba kaya arises together with the physical body. Devas have less dense physical bodies compared to humans. They also have five pasada rupas like humans.
• The rupa loka Brahmas have a hadaya vatthu and two pasada rupa. Thus the structure is similar to that of a human gandhabba, but only with two pasada rupa. They are not called gandhabbas because they don’t make subsequent physical bodies based on that manomaya kaya.
• The arupa loka Brahmas have a hadaya vatthu but no pasada rupa. Thus, it has only the mind.
• The hadaya vatthu is also present in the asanna realm. But it is entirely trapped in a physical body with no “doors” to the external world, i.e., no eyes, ears, mouth, tongue, or nervous system to sense the touch. Also, there is no brain to bring in memories. 

Make sure to understand this basic picture. Keep asking questions if anything is unclear.

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Yash RS

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