[sybe07]

Thanks Lal for your last post in which you make clear how in eight steps a pure citta becomes a contaminated vinnana: https://puredhamma.net/living-dhamma/dhamma-with-less-pali/citta-mano-vinnana-thought/

I think this contamination proces is also described in SN22.47, in this way:

…”There is, bhikkhus, the mind, there are mental phenomena, there is the element of ignorance. When the uninstructed worldling is contacted by a feeling born of ignorance-contact, ‘I am’ occurs to him; ‘I am this’ occurs to him; ‘I will be’ and ‘I will not be,’ and ‘I will consist of form’ and ‘I will be formless,’ and ‘I will be percipient’ and ‘I will be nonpercipient’ and ‘I will be neither percipient nor nonpercipientl-these occur to him.63 [47] “The five faculties remain right there, bhikkhus, but in regard to them the instructed noble disciple abandons ignorance and arouses true knowledge. With the fading away of ignorance and the arising of true knowledge, ‘I am’ does not occur to him; ‘I am this’ does not occur to him; ‘I will be’ and ‘I will not be,’ and ‘I will consist of form’ and ‘I will be formless,’ and ‘I will be percipient’ and ‘I will be nonpercipient’ and ‘I will be neither percipient nor nonpercipientf-these do not occur to him”…. (from the SN translation Bodhi).

In almost all are sense-contacts, i belief, arises this “I am” impression. And from that all other kinds of secundary identity-views. I belief the Buddha taught that this is in fact a contamination of the mind. It leads to the perception of an “entity-I” who sees, feels, hears, lives, dies etc.

There can be the element of greed and hate but when there is sense-contact there arises still more often and strongly this contamination of “I am” in contact, i think. For us it so common that we do not even regard it as a contamination of mind. Do you agree?

SN22.81 explains:
…“When the uninstructed worldling is contacted by a feeling born of ignorance-contact, craving arises: thence that formation is born”…

“that formation” …refers to the 20 kinds of sakkaya dithhi.

This fragment says that based on ignorance-contact craving arises. It refers, i belief, to those instinctive moments we regard the experienced body, feelings, perceptions, mental formations and consciousnesse as ‘who i am’ or as ‘mine’. In this sense clinging is due a certain kind of understanding (or information).

SN22.83 says:
…”It is by clinging, Ananda, that [the notion] ‘I am’ occurs, not without clinging. And by clinging to what does ‘I am’ occur, not without clinging? It is by clinging to form that ‘I am’ occurs, not without clinging. It is by clinging to feeling … to perception .. . to volitional formations .. . to consciousness that ‘I am’ occurs, not without clinging”…

This also suggest, i belief, that the notion “I am”, i.e. the notion that there is an entity-I who sees, hears, feels, lives and dies, is not inherent to mind although it appears that way to the unelightend mind.

Siebe

[Tobias G]

The pancakkhanda is all a being can experience in this world. Thus clinging to any part of that will keep one bound to this world. One should contemplate the pancakkhanda (and pancaupadanakkhanda) to see the tilakkhana in the them. With that understanding one reduces tanha and one can feel enhanced niramisa sukha.

[sybe07]

Hi Tobias,

I belief the Buddha has seen it is not a being which experiences pancakhandha. The idea that a being experiences is, i belief, the basic deluded sanna deeply rooted in the mind. It is mind which experiences. But also that is only a given name.

Mind can also experience the total ending of all craving and asava’s and experience ultimate peace. I think mind can experience the conditioned (five khandha’s) but also the unconditioned element.

kind regards,
Siebe

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