- This topic has 5 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
I have a question. When a person is reborn in one of the 5 pure abodes of anagami (Suddhavasa) or even an ariya below the anagami stage who is reborn in a Brahma world (Arupa or Rupa Loka), are they free from all bad Kamma Vipāka? For example, if a person has committed several murders, rapes, frauds, and used their words to harm others, but then repents and takes an interest in the Dhamma, all in the same lifetime, and has not committed a single anantariya Kamma and manages to practice until they reach the anagami stage. If they die of old age and are reborn in a Suddhavasa abode, does this mean all their bad Kamma Vipāka becomes ineffective?
- I am asking this question because there is a sutta ( I don’t remember which one) where Lord Buddha states that no one can escape their Kamma, even if they were to go very far into the sky or under the earth.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Kamma Vipaka is based on cause, condition and effect. This is the Principle of Causality.
If the causes are there, but the required conditions are not present, the effect won’t manifest. Just like a mango seed has the ability to give rise to a mango tree. But it won’t happen if the conditions are not right, like , watering of the seed, availability of sunlight, good soil, etc.
Same is with the kamma Vipaka. An angami brahma may have accumulated many bad kamma in the past. But the condition for their fruition is permanently eradicated.
För example he may have killed many people in the past. But due to such a light body he cannot be killed. And many more.
If one attains Parinibbana, all the kamma bija become ineffective.
What the Buddha said would have been in accordance with the Causality part as mentioned earlier. Untill and unless, the magga phala is attained, one is bound to suffer the consequences as the conditions may come some day.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I am asking this question because there is a sutta ( I don’t remember which one) where Lord Buddha states that no one can escape their Kamma, even if they were to go very far into the sky or under the earth.
Dhammapada Verse 127
Tayojana VatthuNa antalikkhe na samuddamajjhe, na pabbatānaṁ vivaraṁ pavissa;
Na vijjatī so jagatippadeso, yatthaṭṭhito mucceyya pāpakammā.Verse 127: Not in the sky, nor in the middle of the ocean, nor in the cave of a mountain, nor anywhere else, is there a place, where one may escape from the consequences of an evil deed.
The Story of Three Groups of Persons
While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (127) of this book, with reference to questions raised by three groups of bhikkhus concerning three extraordinary incidents.
The first group: A group of bhikkhus were on their way to pay homage to the Buddha and they stopped at a village on the way. Some people were cooking alms-food for those bhikkhus when one of the houses caught fire and a ring of fire flew up into the air. At that moment, a crow came flying, got caught in the ring of fire and dropped dead in the central part of the village. The bhikkhus seeing the dead crow observed that only the Buddha would be able to explain for what evil deed this crow had to die in this manner. After taking alms-food they continued on their journey to pay homage to the Buddha, and also to ask about the unfortunate crow.
The second group: Another group of bhikkhus wore travelling in a boat; they too wore on their way to pay homage to the Buddha. When they were in the middle of the ocean the boat could not be moved. So, lots were drawn to find out who the unlucky one was; three times the lot fell on the wife of the skipper. Then the skipper said sorrowfully, “Many people should not die on account of this unlucky woman; tie a pot of sand to her neck and threw her into the water so that I would not see her.” The woman was thrown into the sea as instructed by the skipper and the ship could move on. On arrival at their destination. the bhikkhus disembarked and continued on their way to the Buddha. They also intended to ask the Buddha due to what evil kamma the unfortunate woman was thrown overboard.
The third group: A group of seven bhikkhus were also on their way to pay homage to the Buddha. On the way, they enquired at a monastery whether there was any suitable place for them to take shelter for the night in the neighbourhood. They were directed to a cave, and there they spent the night; but in the middle of the night, a large boulder slipped off from above and effectively closed the entrance. In the morning, the bhikkhus from the nearby monastery coming to the cave saw what had happened and they went to bring people from seven villages. With the help of these people they tried to move the boulder, but it was of no avail. Thus, the seven bhikkhus were trapped in the cave without food or water for seven days. On the seventh day, the boulder moved miraculously by itself, and the bhikkhus came out and continued their way to the Buddha. They also intended to ask the Buddha due to what previous evil deed they were thus shut up for seven days in a cave.
The three groups of travellers met on the way and together they went to the Buddha. Each group related to the Buddha what they had seen or experienced on their way and the Buddha answered their questions.
The Buddha answer to the first group: “Bhikkhus, once there was a farmer who had an ox. The ox was very lazy and also very stubborn. It could not be coaxed to do any work; it would lie down chewing the cud or else go to sleep. The farmer lost his temper many times on account of this lazy, stubborn animal; so in anger he tied a straw rope round the neck of the ox and set fire to it, and the ox died. On account of this evil deed the, farmer had suffered for a long time in niraya, and in serving out the remaining part of his punishment, he had been burnt to death in the last seven existences.”
The Buddha’s answer to the second group: “Bhikkhus, once there was a woman who had a pet dog. She used to take the dog along with her wherever she went and young boys of the city poked fun at her. She was very angry and felt so ashamed that she planned to kill the dog. She filled a pot with sand, tied it round the neck of the dog and threw it into the water; and the dog was drowned. On account of this evil deed that woman had suffered for a long time in niraya and in serving the remaining part of her punishment, she had been thrown into the water to drown in the last one hundred existences.”
The Buddha’s answer to the third group: “Bhikkhus, once, seven cowherds saw an iguana going into a mound and they dosed all the seven outlets of the mound with twigs and branches of trees. After closing the outlets they went away, completely forgetting the iguana that was trapped in the mound. Only after seven days, they remembered what they had done and hurriedly returned to the scene of their mischief and let out the iguana. On account of this evil deed, those seven had been imprisoned together for seven days without any food, in the last fourteen existences.”
Then, a bhikkhu remarked, “O indeed! There is no escape from evil consequences for one who has done evil, even if he were in the sky, or in the ocean, or in a cave.” To him, the Buddha said, “Yes, Bhikkhu! You are right; even in the sky or anywhere else, there is no place which is beyond the reach of evil consequences.”
Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Verse 127: Not in the sky, nor in the middle of the ocean, nor in the cave of a mountain, nor anywhere else, is there a place, where one may escape from the consequences of an evil deed. At the end of the discourse all the bhikkhus attained Sotapatti Fruition.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Thank you, Seng Kiat, for providing the background account. It says:
Na antalikkhe na samuddamajjhe, na pabbatānaṁ vivaraṁ pavissa;
Na vijjatī so jagatippadeso, yatthaṭṭhito mucceyya pāpakammā.Verse 127: Not in the sky, nor in the middle of the ocean, nor in the cave of a mountain, nor anywhere else, is there a place, where one may escape from the consequences of an evil deed.
- What Yash wrote is correct. It does not apply to those who have removed the conditions to bring the results of any past kamma.
1. The kammic energy of any akusala kamma is preserved in viññāna dhātu. That energy can wear out gradually over a long time, but until then, they can bring vipāka IF SUITABLE CONDITIONS appear. It is possible to stop some kamma vipāka (anantariya kamma) by attaining the Sotapanna stage. ALL such conditions can be stopped by attaining Arahanthood. It is critical to understand what “kamma nirodha” means.
- The tendency is to assume that it is about nullifying accumulated kammic energies. However, the accumulated kammic energies cannot be removed (some of those energies are exhausted when they bring vipāka, and others gradually “wear away” with time, which can be billions of years.)
- Any remaining kammic energy CAN return to us as “kamma vipāka” whenever suitable CONDITIONS appear.
2. What we can do is to stop the CONDITIONS that can bring such “kamma vipāka.”
- For example, Angulimala killed almost a thousand people. However, when he attained the Sotapanna stage in front of the Buddha (whom he initially intended to kill, another potent kamma), he instantly nullified any accumulated “kamma vipāka” that could have landed him in an apaya. Then, within a month or so, he attained the Arahant stage and nullified ALL accumulated “kamma vipāka.”
- That shows the basic idea. It also shows the unimaginable benefits of attaining magga phala.
3. A kamma is not any action but a “defiled action” based on one’s sañcetanā (one’s defiled intention), and kammic energies are created AT THAT MOMENT with one’s javana cittas. See “Details of Kamma – Intention, Who Is Affected, Kamma Patha.” I may not have emphasized the difference between mere “cetanā” (any intention) and “sañcetanā” (defiled intention) in that post. If so, please let me know.
- Another point is that “kamma” is done with abhisankhara arising in the mind. Javana cittas arise when we engage in abhisankhara. See “Kamma and Saṅkhāra, Cetanā and Sañcetanā.”
- Such a kammic energy stays in “viññāna dhātu” until suitable CONDITIONS appear to bring back the fruits of that kamma as “kamma vipāka.”
- Those kammic energies are also called “dhammā.” See “What are rūpa? – Dhamma are rūpa too!” and “Rupa, Dhammā (Appaṭigha Rupa) and Nāmagotta (Memories).”
4. The key point is that “kamma nirodha” happens only with magga phala. As a higher magga phala is attained, more and more possible kamma vipāka automatically becomes nullified.
- Even though an Arahant has nullified kamma vipāka that can bring rebirth, vipāka of some accumulated strong kammic energies can appear. That is because there is still one “condition” left to bring vipāka: the physical body of the Arahant, which arose due to a kamma vipāka when that Arahant was born.
- At the death of the physical body of an Arahant, no accumulated kammic energies can bring a vipāka to lead to another rebirth in any realm. That is the end of rebirth and even a trace of suffering.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Thank you very much Sir Sengkiat for the reference 🙏🏿 Thank you very much Sir Lal for the explanation and thank you Yash for your explanation.
- I understand that as long as we are in the two upper Lokas (Rupa and Arupa), the bad Kamma Vipāka cannot reach us. All physical suffering is found in the Kāma Loka because of the dense bodies relating to sensuality. 99% of mental suffering is also found in Kāma Loka. It is said that the anagamis have eliminated sadness and anger because these emotions are linked to sensory events such as sights, sounds, smells, touches, tastes, and sensual thoughts. Since the anagami has eliminated Kāma ragā, nothing in the Kāma loka can disturb his peace of mind.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Jittananto wrote: “I understand that as long as we are in the two upper Lokas (Rupa and Arupa), the bad Kamma Vipāka cannot reach us.”
- Yes. The worst types of kamma vipaka materialize in the physical body: injuries, cancer, other sicknesses, headaches, etc…
- Since all Brahmas do not have physical bodies, such vipaka cannot manifest in those 20 realms.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.