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Please take a look at the following excerpt from Bhūmicāla Sutta:
“Ānanda, there are these eight causes and reasons for a great earthquake. What eight?
This great earth is grounded on water, the water is grounded on air, and the air stands in space. At a time when a great wind blows, it stirs the water, and the water stirs the earth. This is the first cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, there is an ascetic or brahmin with psychic power who has achieved mastery of the mind, or a god who is mighty and powerful. They’ve developed a limited perception of earth and a limitless perception of water. They make the earth shake and rock and tremble. This is the second cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, when the being intent on awakening passes away from the host of joyful gods, he’s conceived in his mother’s belly, mindful and aware. Then the earth shakes and rocks and trembles. This is the third cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, when the being intent on awakening comes out of his mother’s belly mindful and aware, the earth shakes and rocks and trembles. This is the fourth cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, when the Realized One realizes the supreme perfect awakening, the earth shakes and rocks and trembles. This is the fifth cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, when the Realized One rolls forth the supreme Wheel of Dhamma, the earth shakes and rocks and trembles. This is the sixth cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, when the Realized One, mindful and aware, surrenders the life force, the earth shakes and rocks and trembles. This is the seventh cause and reason for a great earthquake.
Furthermore, when the Realized One becomes fully extinguished in the element of extinguishment with no residue, the earth shakes and rocks and trembles. This is the eighth cause and reason for a great earthquake.
These are the eight causes and reasons for a great earthquake.”
Is the translation above correct? If so, why does it say that the earthquake is caused due to the blowing wind when it is primarily the role of tectonic plates? And if the other conditions for earthquake listed in the sutta are true, were there many earthquakes during Buddha’s time? I know the primary goal of Buddha was to teach the path to eradicate suffering. But sometimes I can’t figure out whether a certain sutta is meant to provide scientific context or adopted by Buddha to avoid the hassle of giving a detailed description of phenomena that weren’t necessary (as there probably wasn’t any relevance for describing tectonic plates in 5th century BCE, for example).
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1. The problem is we tend to believe whatever science says. Of course, many things science says are true. But science is a “work in progress.” It keeps improving slowly. The following extract is from the post “Dhamma and Science – Introduction.”
“1. Even a few hundred years ago, scientists believed our Earth was the center of the universe: “Geocentric model.”
- Therefore, Buddha’s view of the universe as consisting of innumerable “world systems” was not looked at favorably even a few hundred years ago.
- Of course, that has changed now. Buddha’s statement that “there is no discernible beginning to life” is also becoming vindicated with each new scientific discovery.”
I discussed a few other examples in the post.
2. Taryal asked: “Is the translation above correct? If so, why does it say that the earthquake is caused due to the blowing wind when it is primarily the role of tectonic plates?”
- How do you (or scientists) know that the movement of tectonic plates could not be due to the shifting of a liquid mass underneath it?
- Scientists have not drilled far down enough to see what the Earth’s core is made of. I find the following: “The deepest hole scientists have drilled into the Earth is the Kola Superdeep Borehole in Russia. Located on the Kola Peninsula near the Arctic Circle, this scientific drilling project reached a depth of 12,262 meters (approximately 12.3 kilometers or 7.6 miles) in 1989. The borehole was part of a Soviet research effort started in 1970 to study the Earth’s crust and upper mantle.”
- Earth’s diameter is roughly 12,742 kilometers (7,918 miles).
- So, they have only “scratched the surface.”
- The Buddha did not provide any details, and I will not speculate. But my point is no one knows for sure. Yes. The shifting of tectonic plates could be the “immediate cause” But that could be due to the other reasons. We don’t know enough about the Earth’s core to say for sure.
3. There are deeper aspects to this discussion. I have discussed some in “Cognition Modes – Sañjānāti, Vijānāti, Pajānāti, Abhijānāti” because it is related to the concept of “distorted saññā.”
- All investigations by scientists are based on sañjānāti or vijānāti.
- However, the ultimate reality is different.
- As I pointed out before, Buddha Dhamma is based on a different set of axioms than science, which is why debates are useless.
- When one tries to understand Buddha Dhamma through “mundane logic,” that does not work. There is a paradigm change involved.
- This is summarized in the phrase “atakkāvacaraṁ” (beyond mundane logic/inquiry) in the “Ajāta Sutta (Iti 43)” that describes Nibbana.
4. In another example, we believe things around us are “solid.” However, even the hardest substance we know, diamond, is mostly “empty space.” Our eyes “see” things with a wavelength band that is a tiny fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum.
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“How do you (or scientists) know that the movement of tectonic plates could not be due to the shifting of a liquid mass underneath it?”
The primary reason is that seismic waves don’t indicate the presence of a large liquid layer beneath the crust. If there were an ocean-like layer under the plates, we would expect clear seismic wave disruptions, but we don’t see this.
“The Buddha did not provide any details, and I will not speculate. But my point is no one knows for sure. Yes. The shifting of tectonic plates could be the “immediate cause” But that could be due to the other reasons. We don’t know enough about the Earth’s core to say for sure.”
That’s a fair perspective but the reason I was concerned was because the sutta’s description sounded quite basic and medieval. There isn’t an evidence that weather conditions can influence earthquakes short term, but in the long term the movement of the oceans could have an impact. I apologize if I sound like a nitpicker but the mind is often curious. Buddha had to adjust his discourses to people of his time who had a very limited understanding of the world and in his own words, he said he only teaches 2 things – suffering and the end of suffering, which perhaps doesn’t include explaining physical details like seismography.
But I would still like to discuss the sutta though. It lists the causes for “great earthquakes”, which doesn’t seem to include small foreshocks. Do we know if the whole planet (or a big portion of it) shakes when one of the listed events occur? I also wonder which one of the 8 causes did Ananda experience that led him to ask the question to Buddha.
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“The primary reason is that seismic waves don’t indicate the presence of a large liquid layer beneath the crust. If there were an ocean-like layer under the plates, we would expect clear seismic wave disruptions, but we don’t see this.”
- These are the same type of arguments based on mundane understanding (sañjānāti and vijānāti).
- It is best to spend time understanding that the basis of “modern science” is sañjānāti and vijānāti. I devote my time to Buddha’s teachings based on pajānāti, the true nature.
- I have no more comments on this subject. We have more important things to discuss. The point is that if the foundation is not solid, there is no point trying to “fix” (or “patch up”) the building built on that foundation. All mundane (including scientific) knowledge is based on “distorted saññā.” Time is better spent understanding how “distorted saññā” arises and its profound implications. Of course, it is not easy. It is a different paradigm. Even a few of my close friends don’t believe that and I no longer argue with them. I tried for years. Most are too focused on their “scientific work” and pay no attention to Buddha’s teachings; they don’t even have the time to “take a look.”
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