December 11, 2024 at 6:13 am
#52851
Keymaster
So, your only basis is the mundane interpretation of Waharaka Thero’s statement, not the sutta explanation. Of course, it is up to each person to decide.
- The whole verse in the sutta is “jātipi dukkhā, jarāpi dukkhā, byādhipi dukkho, maraṇampi dukkhāṃ, appiyehi sampayogo dukkho, piyehi vippayogo dukkho, yampicchaṃ na labhati tampi dukkhāṃ—saṅkhittena pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā.”
- That last part is the conclusion: “in brief, the origin of suffering is the craving for the five aggregates of rūpa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, viññāna (pancupādānakkhandha).”
- Every birth in any realm is based on “craving for the five aggregates of rūpa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, viññāna (pancupādānakkhandha).”
In a deeper sense, Waharaka Thero‘s translation still holds. Each and every birth is an “undesirable birth.” That realization comes when one starts comprehending the Noble Truths. Then one would not desire any birth but Nibbana.
- By the way, (concerning your first comment above) one does (abhi)sankhara based on the “craving for the five aggregates of rūpa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, viññāna (pancupādānakkhandha).” All such cravings stop only at the Arahant stage.
- In any case, if you are happy with your understanding, that is all that matters. I am not going to engage in debates. I gave that up when I stopped posting at the Dhamma Wheel discussion forum a couple of years ago. However, if anyone has questions about my explanation, feel free to ask.
P.S. I did not see Amin’s comment when I posted the above.
- I think the statement “The word “P” represents attachment” is not correct if he means “The word “pi” represents attachment.”
- For example, “Yampicchaṃ na labhati tampi dukkhaṃ” (in the long verse quoted above) is a shortened version of the verse (that rhymes). The expanded sentence is “Yam pi icchaṃ na labhati tam pi dukkhaṃ.”
- It is clear that “pi” in that short verse does not mean “attachment.” It is just a “connecting phrase.”
- As we can see, there are many different explanations. One is free to accept whichever makes sense to them. The endpoint is to understand the Noble Truths.