Reply To: Revealing Nirodha Samāpatti – Delson Armstrong

#52682
Amin
Participant

Theruwan saranayi.

Hello everybody.
I hope everybody is doing well.

• In the book written by Deleson Armstrong called “mind without craving.”
At the end of the book, many practitioners talk about their attainments.

Reading them and carefully examining them.
It appears that most of them, if not all, have no relation to magga phala.
Just to be sure, I sent a question about this so-called cessation experience to the venerable Deegoda Dhammadassi.
If the video gets uploaded, I will leave it here. (It’s possible that the video didn’t get recorded)
It is best not to consider things like that as attainment.

I will leave a story I found about such an experience below; reading it makes things clear.

• And he has made a new interview. And he is saying a lot of confusing things.
If somebody can explain what he is talking about that would be great.

Tales of
CESSATION

U Tissa sat for hours in a state of blankness. His posture was firm and his mind fresh and alert when he emerged from his sitting. He had had a sudden cessation experience and wanted to have it again. The first experience occurred
while he was watching his mind in a meditative exercise that began with mindfulness of rapid breathing.
Ever since the first experience, he had been instructed to practise and use resolutions in his sittings. He made resolutions to go in quickly to the

state of blankness, ‘the peaceful void’; then to go in frequently. After he was quite adept at that, he resolved to go in and stay in ‘the peaceful void’ for increasingly longer periods of time.
But he was not always successful in staying awake during his sitting. Sometimes he would doze off and
wake up feeling very sleepy though his posture was still firm. Sometimes he would nod often.
How could it be otherwise? Isn’t everything
anatta—not subject to the control of the self? Even resolutions, which are mental formations (saṅkhāras)
that depend not only on strength of mind but also on other favorable conditions, e.g. food, climate and health to give the desired result, are anatta.
His dozing and nodding were defilements to his sitting. At the same time, he had had numerous
cessation experiences—willfully going into and coming out of that ‘peaceful void’. Because of the
repeated cessation experiences which he attained rather easily, he had no doubt at all that the Gates to
the Woeful Realms (Apāya) were closed for him. What puzzled him, however, was why his defilements had
not been totally eradicated: “How come I’m still not an Arahant?”

Inspiration from the Past
“The trouble with yogis nowadays,” declared U Datta, interrupting U Tissa’s reverie, “is that they only talk of how much they want to be awakened.
But they don’t really try. Look, how much time and effort do they actually put into serious meditation?”
“You can say that again,” U Tissa replied. “If only we can be spurred by a sense of urgency…”
“Remember the five bhikkhus when Kassapa Buddha’s Sāsana was declining?”
“Sure. They said, ‘This is the Age of Decadence. What do we have to do with those shameless bhikkhus who don’t respect the Vinaya? Let’s climb
up a hill and sacrifice our lives to meditation.’ When they got to the peak of the hill they threw away the ladder and were forced to devote their last days to
meditation and nothing else.”
“Talking of the Age of Decadence…,” U Datta sighed. “Look at what’s happening today. Even meditation monks and Sayadaws who are supposed to be pure in their sīla, handle money and break many
Vinaya rules, not to mention the vast majority of non-practising monks everywhere. We are at the Age of
Decadence too.” U Datta sounded rather emotional as he touched on this sensitive issue.
They were monks who had been utterly disgusted with the prevalent moral
decadence of the Saṅgha and had taken to the forest, aspiring to lead a life more in accordance with the
Dhamma-Vinaya. “Yes,” U Tissa agreed. “You’re right again. We are at the Age of Decadence.” He paused and thought
deeply for a few moments. Then his face tensed up as
he said firmly and gravely, “We ought to follow their example.”
Other members of the forest Saṅgha protested and tried to talk them around, “Look, this is not the Age of Decadence. Pariyatti Sāsana here in Myanmar
is flourishing like it never has. We even have five Tipiṭakadharas, monks who can recite the Tipiṭaka by heart.
There are still monks who have deep
respect for the Vinaya and try to conduct themselves accordingly. You don’t have to resort to such drastic
measures. You can go on an intensive retreat and vow not to talk unnecessarily.”
“Nothing less than the fear of death can stimulate urgent, wholehearted effort,” retorted U Tissa. U
Datta nodded in agreement. Their hearts were intent on striving for attainment in this very life. Do or die it didn’t matter—as long as they died trying.

Do or Die

U Tissa and U Datta left the forest monastery in search of a suitable place to do-or-die-meditate. A few hundred miles later they arrived at a seaside
monastery and explained their plans to the resident monk: The Sayadaw was to make arrangements for a boat to take the two of them to a small uninhabited island offshore and leave them stranded so that they would be forced to meditate until they died of thirst, hunger and exposure.
“Sayadaw Phayar, we hope you can help us. We are striving toward a noble goal.”
“Okay, I sympathise with you. But I have some important business to do in town right now. So can you please stay here and look after my monastery for
a few days? I’ll make the necessary arrangements as
soon as I get back.”
The two earnest monks were compelled to wait for the Sayadaw’s return before they could embark on their heroic enterprise. During the interval, however,
U Datta thought things over and backed out.
“Well, if you dare not do it, stay here then. I’m going,” U Tissa remarked bluntly as he got up to leave.

“But the Sayadaw’s not back yet, so where are you going?”
“Up to the top of that hill over there,” U Tissa replied, pointing to a hill near the monastery.
U Datta was obliged to stay back in the monastery until the resident monk returned. His plan was to wait four or five days at the seaside before going up
the hill to see how his friend was faring.

The Crazy Monkey Saves the Crazy Monk

Now the Sayadaw kept a pet monkey. On the third day after U Tissa’s departure it started to go berserk for no apparent reason. U Datta was at a complete
loss as to what to do.
“I’m not staying here with this crazy monkey, that’s for sure. Might as well climb up the hill now to see how U Tissa’s doing,” he thought.
When U Datta got to the top of the hill he stared aghast at the sight that made him exclaim:
“Oh my Lord Buddha! U Tissa, what have you done?”
U Tissa was sprawling limply on the ground smeared with fresh blood spurting from two clean
cuts at the throat and wrist respectively. A bloody razor was lying by his side. U Datta ran down the hill to get help immediately. U Tissa was rushed to the nearest hospital and, to cut a long story short, he
lived to tell his tale in a soft rasp:
“After I had slashed my own throat and wrist, I lapsed into a strange realm of consciousness. A very
frightening, black hellish vision appeared before me. I tried to get rid of it by various meditation techniques but it just wouldn’t go away.”