Reply To: ASYMMETRY between pleasure and pain in rebirth cycle


Thank you, Lal, For Sharing the chart with everyone.

I request you to delete the above comment #41357;

I found a better way to communicate those same points.


Everyone knows that human bhava is rare, but logically seeing that is a bit hard. Buddha gave some very radical analogies for rebirths in human or higher realms. (Which are Good bhava in conventional sense.)

There are four POSSIBLE cases in that document regarding bhava to bhava transition for ALL lifestreams.

All of us are in one of those four cases. Those who are ariya are ofcourse on path to get rid of bhava all together.

However, for everyone else who hasn’t yet understood 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana and their inter-connections, are not yet free from bad bhava in (apāyā are bad bhava and “dukha” in conventional sense; all bhava are “dukkhā” in ultimate sense;)

We can start with any one of the four cases in rebirth cycle. But, because, good to bad bhava transition is extremely common and bad to good bhava is extremely common. Balance is ALWAYS extremely tilted towards birth in bad bhava. One WILL end up in apāyā without a doubt (for anariya). But that requires a bit more contemplation of four cases.


Dukkhā has infinite shapes and forms.

Future birth suffering, present birth suffering.

Mental/physical suffering.

Suffering due to Unsatisfactory experiences.

(For example no matter how much food, sex, music, TV, knowledge one has it won’t ever fulfil the senses. Because neither sense objects nor senses themselves are satisfactory or can be satisfied.

(This is the one word summary of mental suffering.)

Suffering of birth and death.

Suffering due to three kinds of dukkhā.


All aspects are not and cannot be covered in one chart.

Chart demonstrates the unfixable problem of suffering.

That problem (old age, illness and death and all the “dukkhā” associated with any birth anywhere at any time) has no permanent solution, other than removing root causes due to which problem arise in first place. (i.e. Removing bhava/jati by removing tanha/san by removing avijjā through lokottara eightfold path starting with sammā diṭṭhi)

Buddha said that even if your head was on fire, your house was burning, instead of fixing that you should contemplate the 4NT and tilakkhana. That would be more useful.

It is not just inspiring saying, there is deep reason behind it. (Which I realised recently.)

Reason is that problems that comes after birth are unfixable problem. (Cannot be permanently fixed and can neither be prevented permanently)

So, root problem is birth anywhere at all (not just in human bhava), ALL OTHER PROBLEMS COMES DUE TO HAVING BIRTH IN FIRST PLACE.

Efforts put towards solving right problem is right efforts. (Right problem= Elimination of bhava/jati.)

Efforts put towards solving wrong problem is wrong efforts. Because it cannot be cured/prevented permanently as long as rebirth is there. Inevitably, There will be similar problem at in future lives too.

(So, basically, Any problem that comes after birth is not a problem we should focus on too much and if possible should try to focus full time on right problem by becoming monk. You lost everything you did in infinite previous lives anyways. Living require only four necessities.)

This why buddha said to contemplate on 4NT/Tilakkhana even when we have life threating danger. Because, that will give us vision of what is real problem and what is not a real problem.


As discussed in discussion thread of Aggañña sutta;

Even 9 months of pleasure vacation pales in comparison to one day of harsh intense suffering.


All pleasures in saṁsāra are filled with dukkhā …