Reply To: Post on An Apparent “Self” Is Involved in Kamma Generation


OK, Christian.

The “very advanced testimonial” that you posted is interesting. I have seen many similar accounts. But the problem is, those experiences do not say anything about Nibbana. They are jhanic experiences.

Now if they are Ariya jhanas, then it has to do with Nibbana.
– It is very easy to determine (for oneself) whether they are Ariya jhanas. If one does not generate ANY kama raga (say even while watching an X-rated movie), then those are likely to be Ariya jhana.

Even the first Ariya jhana REQUIRES ELIMINATION (not just suppression) of kama raga.

If you can post a video of someone saying that they have such jhanic experiences AND also do not have have any kama raga left, please do so. (But again, there are people who have declared themselves to be Arahants. So, I am not sure whether we can take anyone’s word. This is why declaring these accomplishments do not serve benefits to others.)
– Other than Ariya jhana, it is not a big deal to get into a jhana, even the arupa jhana (for those who had cultivated jhana in recent previous lives).
However, I am not saying that getting to jhana is bad. I am just saying that getting to jhana is more like a habit from previous lives. It is easy for those who had cultivated jhanas in recent previous lives, to get into jhana.
– It is like someone who learned to ride a bike as a child. Even if that child did not get to ride a bike for many years, he could easily remember how to ride it later on as an adult. But it would be hard for an adult to learn to ride a bike if he had never ridden one.

This is why I believe putting emphasis on jhanas is a bad idea. There could be people who even get to magga phala but cannot cultivate jhana. They could be discouraged because they may be under the impression that it is essential to cultivate jhana to attain magga phala.

We need to remember that Devadatta attained all those jhanas, and was also able to perform “miracles”, like appearing on the lap of Prince Ajasattu in the form of a baby (or a snake?.) But he ended up in the apayas.

I have explained this in many posts. The bottom line is that jhanas and magga phala are two different things. We should not confuse jhanic experiences having anything to do with magga phala.
– Furthermore, the Buddha himself practiced the highest jhana soon after he gave up the “householder life.” It took him six years to get to the Buddhahood.