Reply To: Four Conditions for Attaining Sōtapanna Magga/Phala


“As I understand javana is part of citta. But is javana also part of the physical sound or the sadda rupa?”

I think we can say that there are two possible contributions from one’s speech.

  1. The actual javana power is emitted when one speaks (or even consciously thinks). These are the real “sadda rupa” or suddhashtaka that are emitted due to the citta generated in one’s mind.
  2. – These are part of the “aura” emitted by our bodies.
    – As I said before, it is likely that these “citta kirana” that are emitted by citta (also called “cittaja rupa”) could affect the listener.
    – We do not know what fraction of the “total effect” comes from this.

  3. However, the “message” embedded in spoken words can be reproduced in a recording. Again, I explained this in the previous post.

The relative contributions of the two effects may not be quantified. It probably depends on the speaker/listener combination too.

Even if the speaker is the same, two people even listening at the same time may not get the same benefits. It will depend on the listener ability grasp material as well as the listener’s state of mind (even a person with a sharp mind may not be able to grasp the message, if the mind was agitated at that time).

An idea about the complexity of this issue can be seen by listening to Dhammaruwan’s recitals in the post, “Boy Who Remembered Pāli Suttas for 1500 Years“.
– I added a recording from him as an adult in #6; some of you may not have seen that if you read the original post. I made the addition later.
– It is very clear that the chantings of Dhammaruwan as a child is much more powerful than his recital as an adult. Therefore, that “effect” had been captured in the recording.

In other words, even though the javana power emitted only during the time one’s conscious thoughts are generated, a significant part of the “effect” of the actual speech is captured in a recording.

The actual “sound wave” can be repeated in a recording, as I explained in the previous post. The sound wave hitting the ear drum of a listener is pretty much the same.

We can also see this when we think about the fact that millions of people can learn about a given subject by listening to a tape of recorded instructions these days.