Reply To: What is dukkha dukkha?


Akvan said: “According to this sutta, the bodily pain is referred to as duka vedana. Both the ariya and anariya will feel this duka vedana. But there is second duka that an anariya will feel, and that I think is the dukka dukka.”

The sutta says that a normal human will feel both bodily and mental suffering, and that a Noble Person will only the bodily suffering (of course, the mental suffering gradually reduces with higher magga phala and is totally eliminated only at the Arahant stage).

So, the suffering that is common to both is the bodily suffering and that is the dukkha dukkha. For an Arahant, that also is stopped at Parinibbana.

This is very clear in the sutta in the verse that comes right after the last verse you quoted, which says: “Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, purisaṃ sallena vijjheyya. Tamenaṃ dutiyena sallena anuvedhaṃ na vijjheyya. Evañhi so, bhikkhave, puriso ekasallena vedanaṃ vedayati. Evameva kho, bhikkhave, sutavā ariyasāvako dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno na socati, na kilamati, na paridevati, na urattāḷiṃ kandati, na sammohaṃ āpajjati. So ekaṃ vedanaṃ vedayati—kāyikaṃ, na cetasikaṃ“.

Translated, not word by word, but to give the idea: “Bhikkhus, Suppose a man were to be shot with a spear. In addition to the physical pain, he would become distraught by the injury and suffer mentally too. That is like being pierced by the spear twice. A Noble Person pierced by the same spear will have only that bodily suffering, and no mental suffering”.

The difference is that the Noble Person would realize that the bodily injury is due to a kamma vipaka, and there is nothing one can do, but to take steps to heal it. There is no point in worrying about it.

The mental suffering that will be stopped totally at the Arahant phala moment is also called “samphassa ja vedana“; see, “Vēdanā (Feelings) Arise in Two Ways“.