[diogoroberto]

Hi everyone,

Lal wrote:

“While Jhāna can help reach Sammā Samādhi, they are not necessary.”

But some suttas (DN 22, MN 141, SN 45.8) say, in connection with the Noble Eightfold Path, that Sammā Samādhi is defined as entering and dwelling in the four jhānas (Bhikkhu Bodhi in SN 45.8):

Katamo ca, bhikkhave, sammāsamādhi?

“And what, bhikkhus, is right concentration?

Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.

Here, bhikkhus, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the first jhana, which is accompanied by thought and examination, with rapture and happiness born of seclusion. … he enters and dwells in the second jhana … he enters and dwells in the third jhana … he enters and dwells in the fourth jhana, which is neither painful nor pleasant and includes the purification of mindfulness by equanimity. This is called right concentration.”

What am I misunderstanding?

• This topic was modified 10 hours ago by diogoroberto.
• This topic was modified 10 hours ago by diogoroberto.
• This topic was modified 10 hours ago by diogoroberto.

[Lal]

1. Are you aware that two ancient yogis, Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta, attained the fourth jhana?

• Did they have Samma Samadhi, which is the culmination of the Noble Eightfold Path?
• If so, they would have been at least Anagamis, very close to the Arahant stage.
• They had attained the fourth jhana by suppressing kama raga. They are still puthujjana, not released from the apayas.

2. One needs to be in the Ariya fourth jhana (with kama raga samyojana eliminated) to be in the peak of Samma Samadhi.

• The suttas you quoted refer to the Ariya fourth jhana. 
• The suttas do not explain that; it is to be understood.

3. There are levels of Samma Samadhi attained by Sotapannas, Sakadagamis, Anagamis, and Arahants. 

• Those never go away. Because of the anantarika (unbreakable) Samma Samadhi attained by a Sotapanna, for example, exempts them from rebirths in the apayas.
• The culmination or the peak of the Samma Samadhi can be equated to the Samadhi of an Anagami in the fourth Ariya jhana, who is very close to Arahanthood. The suttas you quoted refer to such Anagamis who are very close to the peak of Samma Samadhi. However, there can even be Arahants who have not cultivated the fourth jhana; those are Pannavimutti Arahants.
• The general definition of the peak of Samma Samadhi refers to fulfilling all other seven path factors, Samma Ditthi through Samma Sati.

4. Those are points I discussed in “Sammā Samādhi – How to Define It?“

• Please read the post carefully. If there are questions about the validity of any parts in the post, please quote from the post and explain why they are wrong.
• That is the only way to resolve any questions or issues.

[Christian]

There are two significant problems associated with Dhamma and reading suttas. First, wrong translations are based on a misunderstanding of Dhamma. Second, people reading these wrong translations read them even more incorrectly, not realizing what is being applied or to whom the Buddha spoke, so they apply everything to themselves, making the Path even harder than it needs to be. 

[Lal]

Yes. Most English translations on the internet are incorrect because they translate word-for-word without understanding the meanings.

• See “Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa.”

[Author]

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