[taryal]

2 years ago I entered a hermit phase and started confronting myself with life’s hardest questions, like “What do I do with my life knowing that it will end?” I saw a video by Daily Stoic’s Ryan Holiday on “memento mori”. He repeatedly states the hard fact, “Memento mori – you will die.” You had a breakup with your girlfriend? “Memento mori – you will die.” You got married to a beautiful princess? “Memento mori – you will die.” You got promoted to a CEO? “Memento mori – you will die.” The existential crisis was intense and I was desperate for answers.

I delved deep into how the Stoics processed this fact and the perspective they had that still motivated them to live their lives, despite knowing that it could end anytime. I found some great insights that combat the fear of death with statements like, “What am I afraid of not being able to do? Suffering from anxiety? Dealing with jerks? Getting through the same monotonous days?” It taught me to distinguish the things that I can control from those that I can’t, while trying to not stress much over the latter and focus more on the former. This helped me build a perspective to navigate life’s challenges, but the existential crisis didn’t stop. I wanted to know what happens after we die. Intense research followed as I started looking into what we know about this “mystery” – what science tells us, what religions have had to say, and in a nutshell, what do we know that could actually be true? Long story short, I became a Dhamma practitioner and I am happy to say that so much of my mental vexations naturally went away.

I am 23 years old. I don’t drink or smoke or do parties. I’m not into anything too extravagant and have been seeking a simple and stable life, where I could calmly work on my Dhamma journey while letting myself grow with time. I’ve suffered from human issues like anyone else – jealousy, envy, anger, wanting to “show off”, etc. But my early adult life has had one major issue – loneliness. I’ve never had sex but got addicted to pornography at the age of 9 which distorted the way I look at women. I acquired maladaptive tendencies to cope with everyday stresses. Fast forward 10 years, I moved to the USA looking for greener pastures. I naively thought that would be the end of most of my suffering, because I would no longer be living in a “third world” country. But I was totally oblivious to the fact that changing geography does not change one’s mental tendencies and my suffering here would not be that different from what it had been in Nepal. They say it is human nature to want to have someone in your life. My mind has been repeatedly seeking a “source” to latch onto. Unfortunately, women end up being that thought object, often leading to a pattern of anxious clinging and unhealthy attachments. I’ve interacted with girls without having any strong feelings towards them, only to find myself suddenly idealizing them and wanting to obsess. For example, I interacted with a Christian friend several times before she graduated. We frequently had lunch, dinner and host family hangouts and I never had any romantic feelings towards her. But one night, I suddenly felt a nerve impulse that made me think about her and want to reach out. I did try to start a relationship with her but it failed. The same thing happened with another girl that I interacted with at work. No romantic feelings while she was working but months later, a sudden impulse that made me want to ask her out and that didn’t work either. These moments made me uncomfortable but I felt better when I moved on. Having practiced the Dhamma made it easy to be compassionate and move ahead while wishing them well.

But that discomfort is nothing compared to what I’ve been through in the past couple of months. A different memory has suddenly exploded in my mind. I graduated college in December 2024, visited Nepal and Sri Lanka in January and returned to the US in February. Despite two tech internships, I’ve been unemployed and in this market, I’ve honestly almost lost hope. I tried using self employment to start a business, which despite getting some traction couldn’t last because of lack of resource. I’ve been referred to multiple companies as a “great” candidate, but they don’t want to sponsor internationals. Even technician and teaching jobs seem out of reach. During this uncertain time, a little less than 2 months ago, a memory that I’ve kept in mind as a genuine interaction with a fellow stranger has suddenly captured my mind. We were travelling to Nashville, TN in August 3, 2022 and we shared a somewhat lengthy and meaningful conversation. I remember her hometown, university, internship state, friend’s place and even her parent’s hometown. But I don’t remember asking her name and my younger and a bit guarded version chose not to exchange contact. Despite not being in touch, I held on to this memory as an example of how I would like for my interactions with women to be. But now this genuine memory has suddenly struck me like a tornado and I am really struggling to figure out what to do. I posted a bunch of missed connection posts in reddit and facebook but didn’t get a response from her. I asked the American Airlines if they could forward a message but they said it goes against their strict privacy policy. Her school’s alumni association doesn’t seem interested in helping either. I feel like I’ve run out of options and have been trying to make my mind understand that there is no need to anxiously obsess over someone for a couple hours long conversation that transpired 3 years ago. If the causes and conditions of the universe bring us together, we will reconnect but that does not seem up to me.

I really don’t mean to come off as a crybaby or a weirdo in the forum. Those who’ve seen my other posts may know that I am serious about the Dhamma. But I feel like I’m really young and I would benefit from the advice of folks here that are much older and wiser than me. I’ve been very lucky to have my aunt’s business partner’s family host me in their house recently while I continue my job search and work on my anxiety issue. If I don’t get a job in a couple months, I plan to go back to my country to work on my mental health and decide the next steps in my lay life. Some would say it can be embarrassing to go back without making “a lot of money” but I think that is narrow minded. I do ask myself, questions like am I right or am I being a loser who’s running away from the world again? Would it be a good idea to visit a psychiatrist or therapist? I never had panic attacks in 2 years until now and the pent up issues are starting to surface, which is really concerning.

Please forgive me for venting my issues here but this community has become my opportunity to be fully honest with myself and my thoughts. If I deserve strong criticism, please don’t hesitate. This kid needs to learn and move forward.

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Jittananto

[Jittananto]

Hi Taryal, it’s been a while! I’m in the same age group as you so my opinion will be different from a more experienced person. I advise you to see a therapist for this kind of problem. It can bring relief (at least temporarily) and bring to light our own traumas. We have accumulated traumas since our early childhood that remain and leave traces. The therapist will be able to bring them to light and will propose solutions that can alleviate them. Personally, I will soon make an appointment to diagnose certain toxic aspects of my mind. I have certain behaviours that can be toxic for those around me. This kind of behaviour comes from the environment where I grew up. The good thing is that at least we realize our problems early. It is better to be aware of this than at 60 for example. The older we get, the worse our mental health will get. However, therapy will never be able to get to the root of the problem which is Avijjā, Tanha and Patigha. Bhantes aren’t always qualified to help us with our current mental health. They can only give us the ultimate solution. Therapy fails to see past lives traumas and the toxicity of the rebirth process. It is the Pure Dhamma of Lord Buddha or his noble disciples that will cure us forever of all mental suffering. You and I are very fortunate since we have the true Dhamma thanks to people like Sir Lal and the monks of Waharaka and Jethavanarama Monasteries.

As the Most Venerable Waharaka Thero said, on our path to Nibbana, we must not ignore the supporting conditions. Supporting conditions are actions that help us on the path, but they should not be put above everything else. I believe that seeing a therapist is a supportive condition. May you attain the Supreme Bliss of Nibbāna and the end of all mental suffering. 🙏🏿🪷🌸

[taryal]

Hi Gad, it’s indeed been a while. Thank you for your comment and I am sorry to hear that you’re also experiencing some mental toxicity. I think your advice to visit a therapist is great, since they’re trained to provide immediate solutions to such lay issues. Are you aware of any medications that could be useful?

May you be free from all mental suffering too.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jittananto

[Jittananto]

Hello Taryal ! Thank you 🙏🏿

 

Are you aware of any medications that could be useful?

I think jhānas can be useful but I never achieve one. 

[Lal]

I am sorry to hear about your issue, Taryal. I will think about it and post a comment later today ot tomorrow. 

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jittananto

[Christian]

I will try to make it short.

1) A lot of things that happens in our life is related to kamma, what you going thought majority of people will go through. Unless you have enough merit to turn your life around (which is something you test through actions)

2) There is no solution to that situation. If you are looking to prosper, you need to possess a set of skills, wisdom, and a strong character/physical appearance/connections to be successful. Each area you lack will work against you in one way or another. Being on top or having an advantage in life brings another set of difficulties, and now you need to manage your position. The best way is the ability to stabilize your life so you can focus on Dhamma, so not going too high and not going too low in terms of income, household, and ability to maintain that.

3) Your personal feelings, stoic stuff etc,. They are all mental fabrications, you see images in your mind related to yourself and the future, and suffer that while in reality it is self-maintained and fabricated delusion. All you need to worry in reality is basic stuff, practice Dhamma, and listen to discourses so you can get rid of that fabrication. In reality, there are only two states: you are either free or in bondage. All the loneliness talk is just hormones and biology pushing you towards action, desires. You are mismanaging your mind, rather than just going back to the basics. Refresh discourses (the one I posted somewhere), re-read stuff, and get your strong base otherwise you will crumble as you actually are crumbling because you’re flying too close to the sun without understanding what it takes. 

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Jittananto

[Lal]

I read Taryal’s post carefully and would like to ask him some questions. Please feel free to reply to only those you feel comfortable answering.

1. What do you mean when you say, “Long story short, I became a Dhamma practitioner and I am happy to say that so much of my mental vexations naturally went away.” Briefly explain (only if you feel comfortable) what the ‘practice’ means.

2. Do you believe in rebirth? How much do you understand about concepts like the anicca nature and Paticca Samuppada?

• Have you read the post “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“?
• Have you read my posts on (distorted) saññā? If so, what do you think are the major implications of it?

3. Regardless of whether you answer those or to what extent, I can make some general comments. My questions are designed to gauge your level of understanding, so that I MAY BE able to provide some specific suggestions. I know that you are a well-educated and intelligent young person. But those are different from “understanding of Buddha’s teachings.” Please take your time to respond.

[TripleGemStudent]

Hello Taryal, may you and all of us living beings be and stay well. 

Some mundane things I would like to ask you that might help to better share the related information to your situation. 

#1. How would you say your diet is? For example, what types of food do you eat. Do you eat a little, moderate or often eat? 

#2. Do you have any stomach or digestive issues?

[taryal]

Dr. Lal said, “I read Taryal’s post carefully and would like to ask him some questions. Please feel free to reply to only those you feel comfortable answering.

1. What do you mean when you say, “Long story short, I became a Dhamma practitioner and I am happy to say that so much of my mental vexations naturally went away.” Briefly explain (only if you feel comfortable) what the ‘practice’ means.

2. Do you believe in rebirth? How much do you understand about concepts like the anicca nature and Paticca Samuppada?

• Have you read the post “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“?
• Have you read my posts on (distorted) saññā? If so, what do you think are the major implications of it?

3. Regardless of whether you answer those or to what extent, I can make some general comments. My questions are designed to gauge your level of understanding, so that I MAY BE able to provide some specific suggestions. I know that you are a well-educated and intelligent young person. But those are different from “understanding of Buddha’s teachings.” Please take your time to respond.”

I’m sorry for not explaining how I started practicing Buddha’s teachings. I didn’t want for this post to be too long. But here are my quick answers to your questions:

1. By ‘practice’, I almost exclusively meant insight meditation (vipassana). I’ve spent a lot of time going over blogs in this website and discourses from Jethavanarama Monastery which include concepts like Tilakkhana (anicca, anatta, dukkha), Paticca Samuppada, Pleasure & Vexation cycle, etc. (edited to add: I’ve also practiced metta where I wish the other person to be free from suffering no matter whether we had issues or not. I feel like my tendency to get angry has gone down tremendously.)
2. Yes, I do believe in rebirth. I have noticed that this is a fundamental axiom of Buddha dhamma and all the other concepts integrate together with this foundation. Outside Dhamma, I have also spent a lot of time going over studies in Near Death Experiences (NDEs) and children recalling past lives, mostly from the University of Virginia’s Division of Perceptual Studies, which I find to be compelling and compatible with Buddha’s teachings. But I will also say that I don’t have the ability to recall past lives or have had any “supernatural” experience that convince me without a shadow of a doubt that gandhabbas and para loka are real. I am faithful enough to the Dhamma that make them part of my worldview.
   • I understand the anicca nature as “inability to main things to our liking in the long run”. We will inevitably die with future uncertain and if one stays in this world without attaining a magga phala (or being a bodhi satta), rebirth in the apaya is difficult to avoid. So in the long run, one is helpless. Paticca Samuppada elucidates this issue in more detail by explaining how causes and conditions bring their results, without it having anything to do with an unchanging self or soul. This includes the aspect that explains how much of what happens in our mind after receiving sensory inputs follow a series of conditionality chain that lead to different mental states based on our gati. Basically, this process is not under our complete control but it is also not random. The other aspect goes over how this leads to rebirth (cuti patisandhi, jati, bhava, etc.).
   • Yes, I have read several posts on (distorted) saññā. I used a mantra to remember this concept that is, “We have to take our perception seriously but it does not obligate us to take it literally.” For example, a human is rightfully disgusted by rotten food because consuming it would create problems in the body. But that wouldn’t be the case for a pig. Similarly, a heterosexual man could be attracted to the sight of a woman’s body, not because it is intrinsically of attractive nature but because his perception is distorted into viewing it as attractive. Neuroscientists describe it as an evolutionary trait of reproduction. So what I understand to be its implication is that since our perceptions of worldly things are essentially fabricated to be viewed a certain way and built into our bodies, we don’t need to be enslaved by them. We need to take them seriously (like it’s not a good idea to consume rotten food) but this understanding can be used to detach from the illusory “beauty” or even “ugliness” of the external world, which combined with Tilakkhana elucidate the futility and danger of craving sensory pleasure. (I have found myself struggling to apply this when I look at certain women. The harmful conditioning from pornography has lasted for over a decade and it feels utterly difficult to get out of it. I’ve been telling myself that since detachment happens in stages, I could take the time to be intimate with a woman which would help me understand what it’s actually like and whether my fantasies are realistic or useful.)

I briefly summarized my answers. Please feel free to correct me if I said something wrong or ask more clarifying questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to consider helping me out.

[taryal]

TripleGemStudent said, “Hello Taryal, may you and all of us living beings be and stay well. 

Some mundane things I would like to ask you that might help to better share the related information to your situation. 

#1. How would you say your diet is? For example, what types of food do you eat. Do you eat a little, moderate or often eat? 

#2. Do you have any stomach or digestive issues?”

Hi TripleGemStudent, thank you for taking the time to comment and sharing your compassionate words towards the well being of all beings. Here are my answers to your questions:

1. My diet tends to a traditional Nepali style diet. In the morning, I like to drink chai tea with 1 or 2 slices of bread. Couple hours later, I like to have lunch which is Dal Bhat Tarkari (Rice, Lentil Soup and vegetables) and my dinner in the evening is the same. Sometimes, I also like to consume fruits like banana, orange, etc. and snacks like cup noodles, granola bar, etc. So I would say that my diet is on the moderate side. Nowadays though, if I be fully honest, my appetite hasn’t been that high because of the anxiety attacks.
2. No stomach issues that I am aware of. I weight about 147 lbs and am 6 feet tall, which I think partially puts me on the skinny spectrum.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. I am looking forward to hearing from you.

[Lal]

OK. That is kind of what I expected. I think most of those who read my website probably would say the same. 

1. You wrote at the end of your first post: “If I deserve strong criticism, please don’t hesitate. This kid needs to learn and move forward.”

• The following is not a criticism, but rather my honest evaluation based on your posts, along with a few suggestions.
• Since only a Buddha can determine someone’s ‘status,’ I am not certain whether what I say in #2 is correct. But that is my best guess. I considered not being so direct, but I think it could be useful for many to gauge their ‘status.’

2. My evaluation was based on the following two observations: (i) Your main issue is “Anxiety and Panic attacks after 2 years” and (ii) At the beginning of your first post, you wrote “2 years ago … I saw a video by Daily Stoic’s Ryan Holiday on “memento mori”. 

• Regarding (i): a Sotapanna would not get panic attacks.
• Regarding (ii): I have not studied Stoicism. But I find the following description in “What Is a Stoic Person?” to be revealing of its philosophy: “Stoics thought that, in order to be happy, we must learn to distinguish between what we can control and what we cannot. Those things in our life that we can control, we should try to steer towards their best outcomes for all. Those that we cannot control, we must learn to accept.” 
• I am not sure when you looked into Stoicism. If it was after you “started practicing Dhamma,” that means you were still not certain about Buddha’s teachings. This is not an admonition not to look into other teachings, but one of the characteristics of a Sotapanna is that they have “unbreakable confidence in Buddha’s teachings.” Additionally, regarding the highlighted section in the above quote: With the Buddha’s teachings, we can achieve “total control.”

3. Based on your post in response to my request, I would say that you are at the ‘jānato‘ stage. That means you have “received enough information” about Buddha’s teachings to be able to get to the Sotapanna stage. But to get to the Sotapanna stage, one must have also gone through the ‘passato‘ stage, where one has “seen with wisdom’ the implications of what one learned. See “‘Jānato Passato’ and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”

• Now, to some suggestions.

4. The most critical stage is to reach the Sotapanna stage. The Buddha said that one would have overcome 99% or more of all future suffering at that point. If all future suffering of a puthujjana is compared to the size of the Earth, the amount of suffering left for a Sotapanna is the size of a pebble (small stone). 

• That is because most of the strong/potent kamma are done with wrong views or ‘miccha ditthi.’ In particular, all apayagami kamma (those that can bring rebirth in an apaya) are done with miccha ditthi.
• Thus, the most critical step in following Buddha’s teachings is to first remove the ten types of miccha ditthi (which includes not believing in rebirth and not believing that kamma can (not deterministic, but could) have their corresponding vipaka or results), and then to remove the deeper wrong views/miccha ditthi that ‘sensual pleasures in kama loka‘, ‘jhanic pleasures ‘, or ‘arupa samapatti pleasures’ are beneficial and can lead to overcoming suffering.  
• Most people have removed the ten types of miccha ditthi. Removing deeply ingrained ‘deeper wrong views‘ requires more effort. After all, one would have removed 99% or more of all future suffering at that point.

5. I think a major obstacle in that second phase is to focus on the anicca nature of external objects (one’s possessions and even one’s physical body) and not to focus on the anicca nature of ‘mental constructs’ that arise in the mind based on those external things. 

• There are over 50 suttas in the ‘Vacchagottavagga‘ of ‘Saṁyutta Nikāya 33′ that address the issue of deeper miccha ditthi. In all these suttas, Vacchagotta asks the Buddha the same question: “What is the cause, what is the reason for these various misconceptions (diṭṭhi) to arise?”
• In all those suttas, the Buddha’s answer is the same: “it is because of not knowing each component of the pañca upādānakkhandha, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation.”
• As we know, those five components are rupa upādānakkhandha through viññāṇa upādānakkhandha. In the suttas, these are abbreviated as rupa through viññāṇa (rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa).
• It is obvious that vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa arise in one’s mind. But many people consider rupa to be ‘external objects.’ That leads to serious misconceptions. Here, rupa refers to “the mental image that arises in one’s mind based on an external rupa.” That mental image is based on one’s experience of previous rupa and thus is rupa upādānakkhandha. The ‘upādāna‘ part comes because one’s wrong view that they are ‘real and can be beneficial’. 
• See “Rupa, Vedanā, Saññā, Saṅkhāra, Viññāṇa – Mostly Misunderstood.”

6. Let us consider the first of the 50-plus suttas mentioned above. 

• In the “Rūpaaññāṇa Sutta (SN 33.1),” Vacchagotta asks the Buddha the question: “What is the cause, what is the reason for these various misconceptions (diṭṭhi) to arise?” 
• At marker 1.6, the Buddha answers: “Vaccha, it is because of not knowing rupa, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation.” (The four subsequent suttas in the series repeat the verse for vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa. The rest of the suttas in the series describe various other related aspects.)
• As we discussed above, rupa does not refer to ‘external rupa,’ but the one that arises in one’s mind based on an external rupa. 
• An ‘external rupa‘ can be a sight, sound, taste, smell, or a ‘body touch.’ Let us consider a sight (also called rupa for ‘rupa rupa’ or ‘vanna rupa’ to distinguish from other types). The Buddha has explained that the attachment to a sight (rupa) is experienced in two steps: rupa paṭisaṁvedī, immediately followed by “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī” for those who have not eliminated kama raga samyojana. However, that second step does not occur for an Arahant or an Anagami who has eliminated kama raga samyojana.
• If one can fully understand this, that is one way to become a Sotapanna. See, “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?“

7. The reason that one may attach to a certain ‘external rupa‘ with greed for anyone born a human (puthujjana or Arahant) is the following: That ‘external rupa‘ leads to the creation of an “appealing version of it” in the mind of anyone born a human. The human body and the external world are both “designed via Paticca Samuppada” to provide a “kama sanna” that triggers a “sukha feeling.” 

• The mind of a puthujjana will automatically attach to that ‘mind-made rupa‘ with the ‘subha/kama sanna‘ (rupa paṭisaṁvedī, immediately followed by “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī”). That is the very beginning of a series of attachment steps that may lead to the accumulation of potent kamma. That is why the initial stage is called “purana kamma‘ meaning ‘the initial kamma accumulation stage.’ If further attachment in subsequent steps occurs, it leads to the ‘nava kamma‘ stage, where potent, new kamma is accumulated. There are many posts on the website on this issue; see, for example, “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation .”
• On the other hand, only the rupa paṭisaṁvedī step occurs for an Arahant or an Anāgāmi who has eliminated kāma rāga samyojana. They still feel the ‘sukha vedana‘ due to the “kama sanna,” but their minds do not undergo the “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī” step. 
• Now, a Sotapanna has ‘seen with wisdom’ (with dhamma cakkhu) this process. Thus, they have removed the wrong view that those ‘kama sanna’ are ‘real and can be beneficial’. That has led to the removal of the three ‘ditthi samyojana‘ (sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa). However, since they have not removed the kama raga samyojana, their minds will still become attached and undergo the “rūpa rāga paṭisaṁvedī” step. Still, they are attached with three fewer samyojana than a puthujjana, and that is why those attachment do not lead to ‘apayagami kamma.’ 
• See, for example, “Sotapanna Stage from Kāma Loka.”

8. Also see “Avijjā is Triggered by Kāma Saññā in Kāma Loka” and other recent posts in “New / Revised Posts.”

• One cannot hope to eliminate “99% or more of all future suffering” by just casually reading a few posts. One must make a serious effort! I am not saying this to anyone specifically; it is the truth. Think about how much time a person spends getting a good education. That will hold only for this lifetime. Reaching the Sotapanna stage is for an eternity!

9. Please feel free to ask questions to clarify any issues that may not have been addressed. It is impossible to do that in a single post.  But I thought some of you could benefit from the above summary. The key is to ask questions to clarify any ‘difficult issues.’ I may write a hundred posts without addressing them, because I’m unsure how much of what I write people understand.

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taryal, jennydo

[taryal]

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, Dr. Lal. My mental health is slowly getting better and I plan not to strain it much for now. I have some thoughts to share which I will do in a few days. Thanks again to everyone else who joined the thread. If you have anything else to share which could be helpful, please do so.

[Lal]

After posting it, I wondered whether my comments were ‘too harsh.’ I don’t even know whether you wanted to be a Sotapanna. Your concern was probably about finding that person with whom you had a ‘genuine interaction.’ You are also worried about your job situation. My comment was very narrowly focused; I am not qualified to offer advice on mundane issues. 

• So, don’t even worry about replying to my previous post. I hope your mundane issues will get resolved, especially the job situation. Of course, we must be concerned about those mundane things. It is essential to resolve those issues first. Insight meditation requires a ‘settled mind.’
• However, I hope my comments could be beneficial for at least some others. 

 

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jennydo

[Christian]

You also seem to be projecting a lot, which happens to most religious and ignorant people (in the sense of Dhamma), projecting their future, beliefs, and ideas, while in Dhamma, you see reality, ask questions, and try to know things as they are. It’s clear that you’re projecting too much, generating a lot more weight for yourself than you need. Your mindset is what generates anxiety and panic attacks as you put yourself into that position, it’s not always kamma, even if kamma is to blame we still need to do our best and put effort to balance out our life. My advice would be less projecting, more insight and more responsibility for your actions, if you think life should go the way you project it then you will feel anxiety and panic attacks. If you are into stoic stuff you should remember “Seek not for events to happen as you wish but rather wish for events to happen as they do and your life will go smoothly.” The quite is from Enchirion, but it’s a bit weird english translation. The real meaning behind that quote is that you do not want to create things as you want but rather apply mind to things happening, you apply to situation rather than making situation the way you want. 

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jennydo

[Lal]

Taryal is probably going through a rough time, Christian. We should be empathetic to his situation. Additionally, he is a young person with limited life experience. I should have also paid more attention to that.

[cubibobi]

Hi,

It sounds like your mind is quite turbulent at the moment (we have all been there), and a calm mind is necessary to sort things out, either mundane or supra-mundane:

Key to Calming the Mind – The Five Hindrances

… and of course we know that the more purified the mind the more calm it is. There is a whole section on meditation about that:

Bhāvanā (Meditation)

It is important to get started — first with smaller things to give the motivation to keep going, as pointed out in #6 of this post:

3. The Second Level – Key to Purify the Mind

The meditation-related posts mention frequently the BIG EIGHT, which are:

Killing                               pānātipātā
Stealing                             adinnādānā
sexual misconduct          kāmesumicchācārā
lying                                   musāvāda
gossiping, vain talks       samphappalāpā
slandering                         pisunā vācā
harsh speech                     parusā vācā

In my own experience, cutting down just samphappalāpā (vain, idle talks) — at least to start with — already brought some relief.

Best wishes to you.

3 users thanked author for this post.

taryal, Jittananto, jennydo

[taryal]

Appreciate the replies, y’all.

I think I ended up ranting more than I should have. I am happy to share though that I have accepted a job offer from a Fortune 100 company here in Ohio. It happened really quick but it looks like I will stay in the US for a little longer than I thought and it is a great opportunity to get more stable. Regarding finding the person I shared a genuine interaction with, I’ve decided to drop the desperation. I moved on 3 years ago because I was younger and unsure. I think I can move on now with more wisdom and because it looks like I’ve hit a dead end trying to find them. I do plan to visit a mental health professional to discuss these issues.

I will also share that the end goal for me is to discover the truth. Even getting to “jānato” stage sounds like a major milestone and I don’t really care much about “labels”. With that said, I do not intend to be too hard on myself and want to let fate grow me. Hopefully, there will be more growth opportunities as time goes on. If it is better to refrain from bringing up such personal issues in the forum, please let me know.

Thanks again!

• This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by taryal.

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Jittananto

[Lal]

I’m glad to hear that you’ve accepted a job offer. Focusing on that will help calm the mind. These issues are inevitable in life. The Buddha referred to them as “aṭṭha lokadhamma” or “eight worldly conditions:” Gain and loss, fame and disgrace, blame and praise, and pleasure and pain. All of them are inevitable as we go through life. See “Paṭhamalokadhamma Sutta (AN 8.5).”

• We just have to deal with them as they come up.  Nibbana is the only long-term solution.

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taryal, Jittananto

[Christian]

Yes, you pretty much need to have enough worldly things to practice Dhamma and get out of this world so you don’t remain ignorant of the Dhamma in times of death. Life will always be like that, even with the best kamma; you may suffer here and there. Sometimes you’re able to figure out the situation, sometimes it may be over – we never know, or at least most people don’t know. Always remember that there is a cause for everything. If you can see cause and effect in your life and how things happen, you will have an edge. Never look into what your mind is projecting, as this is just the result of a variety of things showing you things. Always be on the lookout for cause and effect so you can recognize those things and be able to actually make the right decisions. Thoughts are not always bad, and right ideas or solutions may come to your mind, but one needs to recognize thoughts that result from insight and the one that result from ignorance. 

There was a sutta that explains even if you are Dvihetuka and you have no roots for Nibbana, upholding principles and knowledge of Dhamma gives you the seed of Tihetuka in the next lifetime(s)

• This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by Christian.

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taryal, Jittananto

[Lal]

To elaborate on my previous comment:

1. It is worthwhile to contemplate the “Paṭhamalokadhamma Sutta (AN 8.5)” I mentioned above.

• The “eight worldly conditions” of gain/loss, fame/disgrace, blame/praise, and pleasure/pain are about 50/50 in the human realm. We ‘get down’ with loss, disgrace, blame, and pain sometimes, and then something happens to provide the opposites. The Buddha advised us to deal with both in equanimity. Don’t be depressed with the former and don’t be too much elated with the latter. Yet, there is no need to avoid the latter, and of course, try to avoid the former.
• It is good to keep in mind that all those are transitory. In the highest Deva realm, there is hardly a moment of loss, disgrace, blame, or pain. Still, that existence is also temporary.
• The opposite is true of the four lowest realms (apayas). In those realms, loss, disgrace, blame, and pain dominate. 
• We must break this perpetual cycle of going through all those realms by striving for Nibbana. The Sotapanna stage is the most critical step, where one can be assured of no more rebirths in the apayas.

2. The second aspect is that even those ‘highest pleasures’ available in the highest Deva realm are an illusion in ‘ultimate reality.’ Those ‘pleasures’ are mind-made too. The same applies to the ‘jhanic pleasures’ in the Brahma realms. It is really a ‘magic show’ created by the mind itself through a complex process; see “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).” 

• When I get the time, I should write a post on the “Paṭhamarūpārāma Sutta (SN 35.136).” One can get the general idea by reading the English translation in the link.
• At marker 2.1: “Rūpā saddā rasā gandhā, phassā dhammā ca kevalā; Iṭṭhā kantā manāpā ca, yāvatatthīti vuccati.” Translation is better as follows: “Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, touches, and ideas/memories, all of them—they’re likable, desirable, and pleasurable as long as you believe that they are real. 
• Next verse @3.1: “Sadevakassa lokassa, ete vo sukhasammatā; Yattha cete nirujjhanti, taṁ tesaṁ dukkhasammataṁ.” Translation is better as follows: “For all the world with its gods, this is what they deem happiness. When ‘those mind-made pleasures’ cease, that is what they consider to be suffering.”
• Next verse @3.1: “Sukhaṁ diṭṭhamariyebhi (diṭṭham ariyebhi), sakkāyassa nirodhanaṁ; Paccanīkamidaṁ hoti, sabbalokena passataṁ.” Translation is better as follows: “The noble ones have seen that ‘true happiness’ is the cessation of sakkāya (pañcupādānakkhandha).” That is the insight ‘seen’ by the Noble Ones who comprehend the whole world (sabba loka), which is the pañcupādānakkhandha.” As we have discussed, by “loka,” the Buddha referred to the pañcupādānakkhandha. With the cessation of avijjā (or the ten samyojana), the ‘whole world’ filled with suffering ends!
• True happiness is to stop even a trace of suffering! In this world, a little happiness comes with much suffering. A given ‘lifestream’ spends much more time in the apayas, compared to rare rebirths in the realms at or above the human realm.
• Furthermore, any ‘happiness’ is really a ‘(distorted/viparita) saññā‘ generated via  Paṭicca Samuppāda. This takes an effort to understand. We have discussed this for over two years now. That is the ‘essence of the Buddha’s teachings.” Seeing that with wisdom (dhamma cakkhu) is the critical step of “passato” in jānato/passato.” See “‘Jānato Passato’ and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.” 

[Yash RS]

“At marker 2.1: “Rūpā saddā rasā gandhā, phassā dhammā ca kevalā; Iṭṭhā kantā manāpā ca, yāvatatthīti vuccati.” Translation is better as follows: “Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, touches, and ideas/memories, all of them—they’re likable, desirable, and pleasurable as long as you believe that they are real. “

But these things are real, it’s just they are not present in the objects. These are mental perceptions which are real ( since mind is real). This translation may create some confusions.

[Lal]

1. The confusion arises from not recognizing the existence of two realities: mundane reality and ultimate reality.

• In mundane reality (i.e., within the framework of the world of 31 realms and all the living beings in it), all investigations will prove that the sensations of ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’ are real. 
• In ultimate reality (where everything in this world of 31 realms arises via Paticca Samuppada), all those sensations of ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’ are ‘mind-made.’ 

2. Even a living Arahant (in daily life) will experience the sensations of ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain.’ They also experience the mundane reality. But they have fully comprehended that those are all mind-made and will last only until the death of their physical bodies.

• The mistake many people make is to try to overcome these sensations of ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’ by force. They cannot be overcome in the sense that they are ‘built-in’ to our physical bodies. 
• The ‘ultimate reality’ must be understood with wisdom; it is called ‘dhamma cakkhu.’ That is in the first sutta, “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (SN 56.11):”‘Idaṁ dukkhaṁ ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṁ udapādi, ñāṇaṁ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.” The translation there is better as: “This is the noble truth of suffering.’ Such was the dhamma vision, knowledge, wisdom, and realization of truth (vijjā udapādi) that arose in me regarding teachings not learned before from another, leading to my separation from the world (āloko udapādi).”

3. If it is not possible to understand what I am trying to explain, it is better not to try to ‘force it in.’

• In the “Alagaddūpama Sutta (MN 22),” the Buddha stated that ‘sensual pleasures’ provide little gratification and much suffering and distress. That “little gratification’ is the “feeling of pleasure’ one feels with sensual pleasures at that moment; that is the ‘mundane reality.’ 
• But they can bring suffering and distress in the long run. At markers 6.4 through 6.12, he gave many analogies to ‘sensual pleasures’, including a ‘pit of glowing coals.’ That is in the ‘ultimate reality.’ 
• At marker 6.14, the Buddha tells Ariṭṭha that Ariṭṭha has misunderstood his teachings. Please read the sutta from the beginning to understand the context. Ariṭṭha had many misconceptions about Buddha’s teachings. 
• At marker 10.10, the Buddha explained to Ariṭṭha that grasping his teachings the wrong way can be deadly. It is like trying to catch a cobra (snake) by its tail. The cobra will twist back and bite. It must be caught by close to its head.
• If they don’t make sense and lead to stress, it may be better to avoid reading these posts. Sometimes it is not easy to express concepts with words. I always worry about that. 

• This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Lal.

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jennydo, Yash RS

[Lal]

I am going to write a post on this issue. Please ask any other questions that can be addressed there.

• This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Lal.

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Yash RS

[Lal]

October 18, 2025: The following post explains the difference between ‘mundane truth’ and ‘ultimate truth.’

Colors Are Mind-Made (Due to Kāma Saññā)

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Jittananto

[TripleGemStudent]

“I think I ended up ranting more than I should have”

 

I didn’t take your words as a rant but as someone seeking advice or wisdom. Overall, I felt the things you said was appropriate and I’m glad you trusted us here asking for advice and sharing your thoughts and feelings. Besides on the internet or here PD, in my everyday lay life it’s very rare for me to come across people like you and others like PD members here whom have an affinity with the Buddha dhamma and similar teachers / teachings. I do hope to be of assistance to worldly beings, especially to those that are already practicing the mundane or supramundane Noble 8 Fold Path. When you feel it’s appropriate to do so and if it helps you to feel better or relieve some of your anxiety by sharing your thoughts and feelings here on PD or in a PM, please don’t feel bad about doing so. The advices / feedback you receive from others with the right conditions might be of benefit / help to you. Actually there’s much documentation on how writing or journaling can benefit mental health. Also I feel it’s one of the least harmful thing you can do to yourself or others. 

 

 Benefits of Journaling for Mental Health 

 

“Regarding finding the person I shared a genuine interaction with, I’ve decided to drop the desperation.” 

 

If you think about it, you have already pretty much exhausted all your options in trying to contact this person. Don’t you think it’s actually a good idea to drop this desperation since there’s really nothing much more you can do to contact this person? Actually since you said you have decided to drop this desperation and in your first post you mentioned, “My mind has been repeatedly seeking a “source” to latch onto. Unfortunately, women end up being that thought object, often leading to a pattern of anxious clinging and unhealthy attachments.” Now that you have accepted a job offer at a fortune 100 company. I’m not sure what you’re work environment will be like, but if it’s some kind of office job or require interaction with others on a daily basis. Do you believe you might eventually come across another person you’ll cling to anxiously like the person you mentioned of having previously interact with?

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taryal, Jittananto

[taryal]

“I’m not sure what you’re work environment will be like, but if it’s some kind of office job or require interaction with others on a daily basis. Do you believe you might eventually come across another person you’ll cling to anxiously like the person you mentioned of having previously interact with?”

Thanks a lot for sharing your kind words and asking me this question. My answer to that is both yes and no. This person (whom I met on plane 3 years ago) challenged my worldview of preconceived assumptions I had about American women and those from the state of Virginia in particular. This could be why I still vividly remember our conversation and I got accused of being deluded and even “creepy” multiple times because of it. I guess rightfully so, since almost no one tries to find a stranger few years later for a plane conversation. People who know me in real life would say that I am anything but creepy but it is really difficult not to come off as a stalker weirdo when you’re trying to do something like this, and I will share that I did find this woman on the very platonic LinkedIn site but she (rightfully?) blocked me. I am not complaining and in fact am glad that I got the closure that I needed but part of me does wish I could have had at least a brief conversation with her but it is what it is.

Mentally, I can see myself slowly getting back to the normal state now that I can start my career and not be desperate about finding that missed connection. But this has been an utterly uncomfortable experience that on the bright side exposed the trauma that has affected me for a long time. I have always been affected by the tides and what happened recently would perhaps be a tsunami. In Buddha Dhamma, we talk a lot about sensory pleasures and how the craving for them shall be removed in stages. But I wonder if and how this applies to the issue of loneliness. It is easy for someone without this issue to trivialize it as “just hormones/mental fabrication…” but that is inadequate to the person suffering from it. I still have this issue so yes, I think I can say that in my tech job where I will be interacting with a lot of people, I could be attached to someone else but I like to think that interacting with them in person would help me “humanize” them and not put them on a pedestal. Another tide would feel normal but hopefully there won’t be another tsunami because I absolutely don’t want to go through that again. My employment benefits include Health Insurance which I plan to use for visiting a Psychiatrist, and I really hope that they will provide useful prescriptions.

And yes, I agree with your comments on the unique nature of people with affinity towards Buddha Dhamma / similar teachings. I think one has to be utterly thoughtful to get here and I can feel the “aura” of these individuals that make me comfortable to share my personal feelings and thoughts. Yesterday was World Mental Health Day and I too would love to be of help to worldly beings by first working on my own mental health. If one is suffering from a mental turmoil, being able to give them support to get out of that would be such a beautiful thing to do.

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TripleGemStudent, Jittananto

[TripleGemStudent]

Hello Taryal, 

I apologize for my tardiness / taking some time to respond / reply to you. I had some reasons for asking you some of the questions that I did. Just wanted to let you know that I have been working on writing out a response to you, but this message ain’t it. 

I didn’t expect to be writing out as much as I did. . . One part of the writing is about 90% completed. I tried to complete the one part and have post it today. But unfortunately I wasn’t able to finish before now having to travel around for the next week. 

During my travels, when I have some free time to settle down and be in the appropriate setting. I’ll continue to work on finishing up at least one part of the writing as soon as I can and have it posted. 

Wish you all the best with your new endeavor and may you and all of us living beings be and stay well. Talk to you soon again

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Jittananto

[TripleGemStudent]

May Taryal and all living of us living beings be and stay well. 

“It is easy for someone without this issue to trivialize it as “just hormones/mental fabrication…” but that is inadequate to the person suffering from it.”

Really Taryal in the end the issue does lie in conditionality / fabrications / ignorance / asava’s / anusaya’s, wrong views, perceptions, thoughts and so on. But in a way like Taryal said even knowing all this “can be” inadequate to the person suffering from the mental health concerns. The true Buddha dhamma is never the issue / problem or the inadequacy. The inadequacy lies in the mind lacking wisdom and other possible karmic causality factors that can cause one to be and remain ignorant of the Buddha dhamma. To me, the inadequacy or problems we might face in this world or with others doesn’t truly fault with others or the outside world, but really with our mind or our wrong / distorted views, perceptions, thoughts about this world. 

It’s my belief and observation treating or trying to help others with mental health conditions is one of the hardest and trickiest circumstances to treat or help with. There’s an idiom “walking on a tightrope”, I feel that’s what’s it like trying to advice or help others with their mental health concerns / conditions. It’s been my experience or observation that people dealing with mental health concerns seem to be more sensitive and any mistakes or inappropriate advice, things said or help given can sometimes have severe negative consequences for the person dealing with mental health concerns. When I first came across Taryal opening post, I thought it wasn’t going to be easy to offer the appropriate advice or help needed for Taryal current circumstances and then confirming so after seeing the progression of the discussion in this thread. I would like to complement what others have already said / shared in trying to help Taryal by sharing some mundane information and possible temporary solutions / approach that can be taken to hopefully help temporary ease / relieve some of the concerns Taryal is currently facing. To me the Buddha dhamma is always the long term / ultimate situation, but sometimes we might need to use some other short term / temporary mundane situations that can help the person to feel / get better / heal some first, then the long term / ultimate situation (the Buddha teachings) can be better or more easier applied. This is just my belief, if a person has a more internalized understanding and seeing of the Buddha teachings or have become a sotapanna, I don’t believe the person would suffer from any significant or lasting negative mental health conditions. Before writing this post I actually have been working on writing out some mundane materials / information / knowledge for Taryal and possibly others to take into consideration or use in their lay life. Since I have been writing this message (part 2), I had to put a pause to the writing (part 1) and will be posting it at a later time when it’s completed.

“Mentally, I can see myself slowly getting back to the normal state now that I can start my career and not be desperate about finding that missed connection.“

Working or being in a career will have its own physical and mental challenges. It’s not going to be sunshine and rainbows for any of us that’s starting a new career or even getting what one wants / desires and there will be up’s and down’s. I’m not saying this to be negative or put anyone in a fearful or negative state of mind but just trying to be realistic about the possible challenges one will / can face trying to maintain what one likes / desires or believe that can give us happiness or contentment. Taryal mentioned he’s 23 years old, I’m not sure what or how much experience he has working at a job or have experienced some of the challenges and difficulties one can face at a job / career and working with others. I definitely have some experiences and stories to share but currently too much to write / type them all out. Something quick I can say is that the usual outcomes of these challenging / difficulty situations / experiences helped facitated in correcting mistakes / errors I have made on the path and help make improvements to my learning and practice of the dhamma. As well as a measurement of how much or how little or no improvements I have made from over the years of learning and practicing the dhamma.    

A current situation that just took place in my lay life where I lost or quit my current employment that I have been with for 3 and half years. I could say I put in constant effort to fulfill my duties and responsibilities and over the years felt I did a good job for the employer while being one of most senior not in position but respected and top employee working for the establishment. Never missed a schedule shift or called in sick, always punctual, did the best I could to incorporate the dhamma while carrying out my job duties and working with others. In the end I became expandable and since they don’t have any good reasons to fire me besides being highest paid in my position, the idea was to find ways to force me out or accept very little to almost no work. Instead of scheming ways, being fired directly would’ve make things easier. I could feel sorry for myself, be upset, angry, blame others or have unwholesome thoughts about the whole ordeal, but I can honestly say my conscious mostly feels clear and have very little unwholesome feelings / thoughts towards the whole ordeal. Don’t really feel like I have to forgive anyone or need to hold any grudges and just tried to see things for what they are which in mundane terms is just business. As dhamma, cause and effect that takes places place according to causality or P.S.

What helped me in believing of having a clear conscious or minimal unwholesome thoughts or wheeling of the mind is truly because of the Buddha teachings. As well from previous experiences working at different jobs and interacting with others and having achieved and worked in the career that I strived for with much effort, then leaving the very same career a few years back. From the beginning of my employment and even with other prospective employers, I already knew I was expandable and when finished using will be thrown out. For some weird reason, I’m actually mostly okay being treated in such a way and see how it’s such a common occurrence in this world. I learned from the Buddha teachings and also through my life experiences helped to confirm that I won’t find be able to find the happiness or fulfillment / contentment in whatever job or career I’m in. Because happiness or fulfillment isn’t out there in the world, but through one’s wholesomeness of mind / thoughts or an undefiled mind. To me, happiness or fulfillment is the sukha of nibbana and is different from the pleasure / gratification or assada that we gain through conditioned phenomenon. Now I mostly see and can understand that a job or career is just a tool to help one to sustain one in this world and can bring dukkha or pleasure / gratification but not as a source of happiness or fulfillment. A job or career or pretty much everything we do in life is only a means to an end but not an end to the means. However we can use these means to help work towards our own and others salivation, freedom, sanity and safety, but the ultimate solution is the Buddha teachings which help us to put an end to all the means.  

<br />
By sharing what just took place in my lay life, I hope it can help illustrate counting or relying on a job / career or really the pancaupdanakkhandha or anything worldly for our happiness or fulfillment is unwise. I’m not saying one shouldn’t strive to get a good education, job or career, be in relationships or even carrying out sensual pleasures. But expecting happiness or fulfillment from these worldly means is like chasing after a mirage but with afflictive consequences. We really need to understand and see for ourselves what all these worldly means / conditioned phenomenon cannot give us. A job / career, relationships, sensual pleasures and other worldly phenomenon with tanha might bring us pleasures / gratifications but also carries challenges / burdens / difficulties in obtaining and maintaining them. These challenges / burdens / difficulties  can cause one to downward spiral towards unwholesomeness, drowning one in dukkha or can be used as a catalyst / experience to further advance and improve our understanding / seeing of the Buddha teachings helping one to become a better / more wholesome being over the long term. Working with or dealing with these challenges / attachments/ cravings / desires / hinderances is no easy task and will take some mindfulness, strong mind, the right tools and the dedication of wanting to become a better / wholesome person “over the long term”. What I mean by “over the long term” is that many of us dhamma practitioners are like toddlers that are just starting to learn how to walk. Before the toddlers are able to constantly stand on their two feet and walk, the toddler would’ve fallen down many times. Just like us dhamma practitioners even though we might already be learning and practicing the dhamma and before one attains the higher fruits of the path. We will 100% guaranteed make choices or carry out unwholesome deeds / kamma that might cause dukkha to ourselves and others, just like how a toddler might keep falling down possibly hurting themselves while learning how to walk. But no matter how many times the toddler might fall down and some times even getting hurt. The toddler never gives up on the idea of trying to stand and walk, which can be seen as an example of the dedication / commitment  we make to make progress on the Noble 8 path or becoming a better / wholesome person over time. In the end what’s most important is that no matter how many times we might get hurt from our unwholesome tendencies or deeds, we need to have the strong commitment of not quitting or giving up on the Buddha teachings or the Noble 8 Fold path. Because the Noble 8 Fold Path or the Buddha dhamma is our only true salvation or the end to all our worldly means.   

It’s commonly believed that the United States is one of the wealthiest and prosperous countries in the world where people can go to achieve “The American Dream” to find happiness / fulfillment. But despite how wealthy or prosperous the citizens of the country might be, there’s still an over 40% prevalence of mental health problems in the United States.  

 Where Mental Health Problems Are Most Prevalent

“My employment benefits include Health Insurance which I plan to use for visiting a Psychiatrist, and I really hope that they will provide useful prescriptions.”

I’m not here to encourage or discourage anyone from seeing a Psychiatrist or using prescriptions. If one does decide to see a Psychiatrist or take prescriptions, I hope to provide some (barely scratching the surface) information that can hopefully help others to make better informed choices and help weight the risks / adverse effects against the benefits of taking anti-psychological drugs. I highly recommend others to do their own research and not to blindly believe anything others including myself might say or share. 

Everything you need to know about anxiety medications

Two sentences I would like to highlight from the article, as well note the word “SSRIs”.

“Suicide risk and antidepressants. In 2004, the FDA required Trusted Source all antidepressants to carry a black-boxed warning relating to the risk of suicide in children and young adults. People under 25 years of age may experience an increase in suicidal thoughts and behaviors while taking antidepressants.”

“Although SSRIs are a type of antidepressant, doctors can prescribe them to people with <u>anxiety</u> and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). 

Taryal asked: “Would it be a good idea to visit a psychiatrist or therapist?”

Personally for myself based on the things I have come to learned and observed. Besides for emergency cases / circumstances, I would “almost” never take any pharmaceutical drugs or go to a conventional doctor, especially to a Psychiatrist or any mental health therapist even if my physical or mental spirals downward. But this is just my belief and view and not saying this to discourage others from seeing any doctors, taking prescriptions or from doing / seeking out what they believe can help them. In regards to if it’s a good idea to visit a Psychiatrist or therapist, I would say yes and no. Yes in the way that I’m sure on a short term / temporary basis “some” people have been helped by Psychiatrists, other therapist and prescriptions and sometimes this short term treatment can help and is needed especially for those that are “completely ignorant” (which Taryal is not) of the dhamma . But by depending on any Psychiatrist, therapist, doctors or even prescriptions as a long term / permanent solution, I would say no, it’s not a good idea . . .   

There are different views, opinions and information out there about Psychiatry, the benefits and risks of prescriptions. I hope to share some different views / perspectives or little of the much information that’s out there.  

Please must watch / see this video: 5 Reasons To Avoid Taking Antidepressant Long Term

One doesn’t have to watch the whole video, but hopefully at least from 15:39 minute mark of the video to the end as in my opinon gives a superficial glimpse that barley scratches the surface of what our current modern medical system is truly about . . . 

Top 10 HIDDEN Risks of SSRIs

“In Buddha Dhamma, we talk a lot about sensory pleasures and how the craving for them shall be removed in stages. But I wonder if and how this applies to the issue of loneliness.” 

It’s my belief just like how craving for sensory can be removed in stages, the issue of loneliness can be removed in stages as well. To me craving for sensory pleasures can be seen similar to desiring relationships with worldly people. If we think about it, isn’t seeking or desiring new friendship, relationships with other attractive / desirable rupa’s being one of the conditions is what gives us sensory pleasures in the first place? I guess it’s normal and natural for defiled minds to seek friendship, relationships, sensual pleasures and so on. The simple way I can think of to say how the issue of loneliness can be removed in stages is when one have a deeper comprehension and seeing of the dhamma or attained the fruits of the Noble 8 Fold Path = less craving for sensual pleasures. When there’s less craving for sensual pleasures = less craving for relationships or associating with others especially with people ignorant of the dhamma. If the craving for sensory pleasures lessens, wouldn’t the desire for relationships with worldly people be lessen as well? This doesn’t mean that one doesn’t want to interact or communicate with others, but only do so out of necessity, convenience, and convention or with a meaningful purpose like sharing of the dhamma.

In some way, I can understand why Taryal and many others including myself have the desire / craving for relationships or sensual pleasures. As long as one remains ignorant of the Buddha teachings, we living beings will keep seeking / indulging in sensual pleasure or relationships because we believe it gives happiness, contentment, comfort and safety but in reality it’s only gives pleasure / gratification, and no refuge. Sensual pleasures are dangerous and not recommended especially to indulge in them or even get attached to them but sometimes things cannot be force like giving up sensual pleasures or the desire for / seeking friendship / relationships when one is not ready to do so. Trying to do so forcefully or when one is truly not ready to let go can cause other sets of problems. Of course one shouldn’t give in or carry out every sensual pleasure that comes to mind or that presents itself in this world especially the severely harmful one’s that really harm oneself and others. Although sometimes using force has it’s time and place, giving up sensual pleasures or the desire / seeking to be in relationships should come naturally through the comprehension and seeing of the dhamma or attaining the fruits of the Noble 8 Fold Path.

I hope to use some examples from my life experiences to complement some of the things I mentioned earlier in this post about committing to keep learning and practicing the Buddha teachings no matter what happens in our life. As well to share the benefits the dhamma has provided to me especially relating to some of the unwholesome tendencies being discussed.

In my earlier 20’s I often seek friendships, especially relationships with the opposite sex. Often hang out with friends, go out to parties, clubs, do drugs, go to the gym, take protein shakes, over eating to try gain weight and muscles to beautify my body to boost my ego and many other worldly activities. Had my first girlfriend which later became a long distance relationship and eventually broke up. I remembered how painful it was when my first girlfriend broke up with me. Fortunately for me, the break up never destroyed my life or caused me a lot of pain and suffering over long or extended periods of time. After the break up and eventually some years later at my work place came across this girl that I really liked and I still remember how much craving (attachment) I had for her. Since we’re working together, we hung out sometimes together with our co-workers and eventually I ended up getting her phone number. I still can remembered the anxiety, nervousness, excitement I was going through when texting or communicating with this girl that I really liked. Although I don’t know the extent or can say have experienced the same extent of Taryal anxiety and especially panic attacks relating to relationships. But I do know what it feels like when we’re in love with someone and we really desire to be in a intimate relationships with them where the other person might not think of you the same way. Fortunately for me “at that time”, I was able to be in a relationship with this girl, whom is actually my wife now and we have been together for over a decade now. I honestly probably would’ve been heartbroken or devastated if I didn’t get the relationship back at that time. After some years in the relationship, I eventually came across the dhamma and it really took me a couple years after learning and practicing the dhamma before any noticeable changes to my mindset and behavior. Initially when I first started learning and practicing the dhamma, even though I was in a relationship, I still had more often than not thoughts / thinking patterns of fantasizing of having sex with another woman especially that was attractive to my gati. 

This year will be about the 9th year since I came across the dhamma and PD. Started about 2 years ago or so, I noticed that whenever I see an attractive woman, my fantasizing / desiring of having sex with the attractive person I come across has decreased noticeably. What this mean is that even having learned and practiced the dhamma for a few years, where in the past my mind would more often than not have the tendency keep wheeling around or fantasizing for some time with strong emotions / energy attachment about the attractive person that I came across. Now days, I noticed these emotions / desires / fantasizing / wheeling thoughts has decreased noticeably. Before, I might fantasize having sex with or keep having wheeling thoughts about the attractive person for minutes or hours. Now days I notice that “the majority” of the time, my thoughts might not even get to the fantasizing of having sex stage when I come across an attractive person and even if it does get to such a stage, it might only last seconds compared to many minutes like in the past. I still feel some attraction / attachment to an attractive person, but the emotions / attachment to such rupa has lessened quite considerably. What’s amazing is that when I come across an attractive person and I get attached initially. The attachment quickly fades within seconds and my mind doesn’t keep wheeling with attachment or desires for this attractive person and like I mentioned the “majority” of time the thoughts doesn’t even get to the fantasizing having sex stage, although it still occurs but with way less intensity and wheeling of thoughts say compared to my first 2 years or so of learning and practicing the dhamma. 

I have good relationship with my spouse and parents. I’m okay financially, physically and mentally healthy. I feel I’m almost living an ideal lay life that many people would like to live and would rate my life a 9/10. But what I have observed now, even though I got the things I wanted or be in the relationship that I was seeking / desired / wanted in the past. I can see how I’m still unfulfilled or dissatisfied, not necessary with my partner, but with sensual pleasures and nature of conditionality arisen phenomenon. I also have some idea that eventually I’ll be separated from what’s dear to me either through death of this jati or other circumstances. Even though I’ll probably feel some dukkha / domanassa when the time comes, but in a way I know I’ll be okay and won’t be devastated / distraught / tormented especially for extended periods of time when the time comes. Another benefit I found with learning and practicing the dhamma over the years is that now days, I’m okay with and actually prefer being alone most of the time than seeking out relationships or socializing / interacting with others. I feel if I were to be alone going forward, I believe I would suffer way less now than let’s say 5 years ago even when I was already learning and practicing the dhamma. All the noticeable positive / beneficial changes that I mentioned didn’t happen overnight or even in a few years. It probably took me 5 plus years or more of learning and practicing the dhamma before I noticed or became more aware of these positive / beneficial changes.

My effort and practice of the dhamma fluctuated throughout the years, sometimes putting in more effort, sometimes less. Indulged in sensual pleasures and broke the precepts even after coming across the Buddha dhamma. But no matter how much my effort and practice fluctuated over the years. Even when carrying out or while experiencing sensual pleasures, pleasant / favorable or unpleasant / unfavorable circumstances occurring in my life. I still did / do my best to contemplate / reflect on teachings since I believe the Buddha dhamma is the only ultimate and permanent solution to the dukkha we experience in this condition world and feel the dhamma in the end is the only home / refuge I can return to. I had / have no plans to ever give up on the Buddha teachings no matter what happens in my life.      

One thing I can say is that the progress made on the path can differ between people. While it took me many years before I saw noticeable changes and how much the Buddha teachings have benefited me. For others, years are not needed before noticeable beneficial changes or the benefits the dhamma can have on their life. Depending on how well one keeps sila (virtue) in one’s everyday life along with coming across the true teachings and how much effort one puts into learning and practicing the Buddha teachings. Some people can gain instant benefits or even in a few months time, while some can take years and some never make any or barely any progress even after decades of learning and practicing the dhamma. I definitely have observed where others that learned and practiced the Buddha teachings barley or made no progress even after over a decade and longer.    

What I’m about to say isn’t meant as advice based on the Buddha teachings nor as some form of resounding encouragement to seek out sensual pleasures or relationships. But from my thinking based on Taryal current predicament, I actually wouldn’t discourage Taryal from seeking out relationships or trying to socializing with others in different settings. I might even encourage him to explore some worldly / mundane activities or hobbies like going to the gym, outdoor activities and so on that might be able to help him feel better on a short term temporary basis or help distract himself from the mental tendencies that he’s currently experiencing and having a negative effect in his everyday life. I believe there are more harmful deeds or desires one can chase after / seek out than simply seeking or being in a relationship or even carrying out certain sensual pleasures. 

But no matter what worldly / mundane activities or hobbies we carry out or while even being in relationships is to do our best to keep the Buddha teachings in mind of the drawbacks, dangers, the meaningless of sensual pleasures or conditioned phenomenon. Including building, maintaining relationships so that we’re not totally fooled or blinded to what this world / sensual pleasures or relationships cannot give to us. No matter how much one’s learning and practice of the dhamma fluctuates or what happens in one’s life. We must always come back to the Buddha teachings to keep learning and practicing the dhamma since it’s our only true salvation, protection and refuge.

I can’t say with certainty but I believe even if I was already learning and practicing the dhamma before the time when I first met the girl (now my wife) in the story I mentioned earlier. I don’t believe I would’ve been able to stop my lusting / craving / desiring for the girl I liked. It wasn’t until some years of learning and practicing the Buddha teachings and using the teachings to apply, contemplate and reflect upon my life experiences was what helped me reduce my lusting / craving / desiring for attractive / desirable rupa’s and relationships over time. Like I mentioned, now days I have little desire to seek out relationships including friendships which this lessening of desire came naturally without forcing myself to not seek out relationships.  

I can’t say with certainty what will work for others, but this is my experience and what worked for me. I feel sometimes it’s not as effective by simply learning of or thinking things in a certain way without the experiences where we can apply the dhamma to these experiences that can be used as a catalyst to change our views, perceptions and thoughts over time to cultivate wisdom and eliminate ignorance.

A year or two back, I came across a comment on reddit that I thought was interesting and could be helpful / encouraging to others. I’ll share it here.

“Dhamma is good for everyone, all the time. Not meditation; not sitting down and closing your eyes, necessarily; but following the teaching of the Buddha sincerely. Increasing one’s generosity, virtue, capacity for patient endurance, and metta, step by step, are all very practically beneficial developments.

I myself was diagnosed with bipolar disorder 2 many years ago, before I found Buddhism. I was severely depressed and withdrawn most of the time, and my life was in a downward spiral. You can be sure I got plenty of therapy and medication during that time, which was mildly helpful; but I couldn’t hold down a job, and eventually could no longer afford either the therapy or the medication.

(Very) luckily for me, I had already begun to learn a bit about Buddhism at that point, and since it was my last hope I just dove in and started learning everything I could about it. I did meditate a lot at that time, but what truly began to make a difference for me was beginning to practice the virtue and generosity, and the restraint (one thing I’ve discovered for myself is that the lows of BPD are greatly worsened when one delights in the highs — When one remains calm while the mind is excited, one is not nearly as prone to despair when that excitement fades).

Practicing the Dhamma in terms of the gradual training, one gradually begins to find that one is actually building up a sense of self respect and integrity, one feels more friendly to others, and is able to take on responsibilities more reliably, when that is required.

At this point, the fact that I have been diagnosed with BPD is hardly more than a bit of trivia in my mind. I have the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha to thank for that.

Therapy and medication can aid a person who is suffering acutely, so that they might regain some composure and ability to think clearly. But the Dhamma is aimed at uprooting the suffering of existence itself, which is a problem that cannot be approached on the level of managing symptoms or relieving discomfort, no matter how profound the relief may be.

I say without doubt that this Dhamma is the only real cure for mental illness. Which does not mean one shouldn’t seek other kinds of help (and again I will stress that I do not advocate meditation as a cure for mental illness, but the actual development of the qualities of the path), but the gradual training can really make a long lasting difference in a way that nothing else can.

And let me stress too, that the practice of Dhamma is not some quick fix, and it is most certainly not easy — In some ways it is the hardest thing in the world. It absolutely does not fix your problems for you — On the contrary, you fix your own problems as you practice (little by little, as you can manage).

So yes, encourage people who are acutely suffering to seek aid if needed, but don’t turn them away from the long term cure — One can soothe acute pain, while also carrying out a more permanent treatment that takes one beyond the need for pain management.”

“If one is suffering from a mental turmoil, being able to give them support to get out of that would be such a beautiful thing to do”.

Taryal if you’re able to get well / heal from your current mental health condition. Your healing experience and how you got out of or at least how you reduced your mental turmoil will be valuable that can give support and help others to get out of or at least reduce their mental turmoil. May you Taryal and all of us living beings be, get and stay well so that we ourselves and possibly help others to be free of dukkha.

I will follow up with another post at a later time.

1 user thanked author for this post.

taryal

[taryal]

That was utterly thoughtful. Thank you TripleGemStudent, I’ll be waiting for part 2 before I post a reply!

[Author]

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