[Lal]

The discussion that y not refer to is at, “Difference between Magga and Phala Citta.”

It is those who are not knowledgeable in Abhidhamma that run into this issue. Then they say that Abhidhamma is not consistent with the Sutta Piṭaka.
– EVERYTHING in the three Piṭaka (Sutta, Vinaya, Abhidhamma) are fully self-consistent.
– I looked at MN 142 and SN 55.24 that the Thero referred to in the discourse. There is no inconsistency with Abhidhamma.

There are four magga phala. Each phala citta arises right after the magga citta.
– A magga citta DOES NOT mean the Anugami stage.
– A “magga anugami” has not had a “magga citta” yet.
– The relevant citta vithi is discussed in the subsection “Citta Vīthi for Attainment of Magga Phala” toward the end of the post, “Citta Vithi – Processing of Sense Inputs”
– when someone cultivates the Path, it COULD take a lot of time to go through Parikamma (P), Upacara (U), Anuloma (A), Gotrabu (G) stages. For example, one may get to the Parikamma (P) stage after some months, and then to the Upacara (U) after more time.
– Then one may get to the Gotrabu (G) stage, and that is when one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami. That is called “change lineage” to become an Ariya or a Noble Person. This is what most people do not realize. A Sotapanna Anugami is an Ariya.
– After more time (depending on the person), one WILL get to the magga citta. That magga citta is INVARIABLY followed by the phala citta. There is no “gap” between the magga citta and the phala citta. A Sotapanna Anugami becomes a Sotapanna at that point.
– Until one reaches the Gotrabu (G) stage, the process is reversible.
– But once the Gotrabu (G) stage is attained, one is an Ariya and WILL NOT go back.

The process is similar for the higher stages of magga phala. Once one becomes a Sotapanna, that does not mean he/she is a Sakadagami Anugami. He/she has to start working on getting to the next stage to become a Sakadagami Anugami.

Also, see, “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās.”

[Lal]

Welcome to the forum, Newin!

Yes. That was not correct. I just fixed it and made a few more revisions in that old post.
Thanks for pointing that out.

[Lal]

“Let’s assume a sotapanna dies without grasping paticca samauppada..”

It is unlikely that one would attain the Sotapanna stage without grasping Paticca Samuppada (PS).
– Now, that does not mean one needs to know the formal PS, i.e., “avijja paccaya sankhara”, ..steps one by one.
– One would need to know that suffering arises because one generates defiled thoughts based on one’s ignorance of the true nature of this world.

This is also related to your first question. One may have investigated this in previous lives and may have made a lot of progress.
– Then one would just need a “little push” to make things clear and to attain not only Sotapanna but even higher stages of magga phala.
– There were many such occurrences, especially in the days of the Buddha. Many people were able to attain magga phala with just a “little push.” For example, Venerables Sariputta, Moggallana, Angulimala, etc.

It is a good idea to contemplate on this important point.

[Lal]

Thank you for the offer of help, Lvalio.

I have alerted upekkha by email about your post. Hopefully, she will get to read it. She has not commented at the forum for a little while.

[Lal]

Regarding Cubibobi (Lang)’s questions, I need to repeat what I wrote earlier, maybe a bit differently.

Our dreams are “made up” by the mind. It is possibly due to a dhammā or a past event.

Thus, the question: “1) Images and sounds in dreams are not rupā, so they must be dhammā, correct?”
– Yes. Images and sounds in dreams are not rupā, in the sense of “physical objects or actual sounds.”
– A dream is based on a past event(s) that registered strongly in the mind. The mind “re-lives” or “makes up” scenarios based on those experiences/impressions.

Next question: “And they arise due to kamma vipakā? Some dreams are pleasant while others are truly nightmares.
– That is possible. But my impression is that it depends mostly on the “state of mind.” A mind that has been agitated during the daytime, is more likely to “generate dreams,” especially nightmares.

Question: “2) Many dreams are filled with actions. For a nightmare, I may be fighting against attackers or running away from vicious animals, etc. For a pleasant dream, I may be enjoying some sensual pleasure.”
– That is true. The mind is making up a scenario.
– If one tends to have sexual fantasies, one is likely to see similar dreams.

Question: “In either case, I have no control of the course of the dream. In the dream, I may wish for the chase to stop or the pleasure to continue but have no control over anything.”
– That is true. We have helpless to “take any action” in a dream. If a dog is chasing, one may not even be able to “run.” Even a “pleasant dream”, we just experience it. It just happens.
– In dreams, we experience “parittarammana citta vithi.” There are no javana citta. That is why we just experience them, and cannot generate any javana citta.

Once a bhikkhu saw a dream where he had sex with a woman. He confessed it to the Buddha. He thought he had to give up the robes since sexual intercourse is prohibited for a bhikkhu.
– But the Buddha said dreams are not meaningful, and that he had done nothing wrong. The bhikkhu did not do that on volition. There were no javana citta generated on his own will.
– I believe that logic also holds in the courts. If one does something while “sleepwalking” one is not responsible for such actions. Of course, one has to prove the “sleepwalking” part.

[Lal]

There could be other links that may not work.

I used a software program (a plugin) to update Pali words to “Tipitaka English.” It was a site-wide automatic update. That probably has led to this issue.

Please let us know if you run into “broken links.” You can post at the forum, or send me an email: [email protected].

Thanks for taking care of those links, Seng Kiat.
– As you all know, Seng Kiat is maintaining the eBook in addition to handling administrative tasks of the website and the forum: “Pure Dhamma Essays in Book Format“

[Lal]

Of course not.

But the question is: Why would anyone take such a claim seriously?

It is like making a statement like the following: 1 plus 1 is not 2.
– Would anyone seriously discuss such a claim?

Of course, people who do not know enough about Buddha Dhamma could make such statements.

[Lal]

cubibobi (Lang) wrote: “Does the gandhabba leave the body when we dream? In my dreams, I can see and hear, which must be through the cakku and sōta pasāda rūpa (physical eyes are shut and physical ears do not hear things); and the pasāda rūpa can function on their own only outside of the physical body, right?”

This is a good question. I think someone asked this sometime back and I did not realize what was being asked.
– No. The gandhabba does not leave the body while we dream.
– The dreams are not seeing (and not heard) with the corresponding pasada rupa.
– Our dreams are “made up” by the mind. A dream is based on something that had been registered strongly in the mind. The mind “re-lives” or “makes up” scenarios based on those experiences/impressions.
– Therefore, a dream is fully “mind-generated.” Those visuals are not real rupa and those sounds are not real sounds.

We see dreams after we fall asleep, but before we get to deep sleep. During this time, the mind is active, but all five physical senses are shut down.

cubibobi (Lang) asked: “Finally, one more curiosity: at around 17:35 the video mentions the limbic system in the brain that gets active at this moment. Could this system be the mano indriya?”
– This is a good point too.
– The limbic system has the following components among others: amygdala, hippocampus, thalamus, hypothalamus. As I have discussed in several posts, our memories generated in the hadaya vatthu are transmitted to the “external world” by a “transmitter” in the mana indriya and memories in the kamma bhava (external world) are recalled using a “receiver” in the mana indriya. Of course, the mana indriya is in the brain, but Buddha Dhamma (Tipitaka) does not address that clearly. Of course, parts of the brain had not been known to humans at the time of the Buddha, so it would not have possible to try to explain at that time.
– A patient (called patient H.M.) lost his ability to recall past events when a tiny part of his brain in the limbic system was removed surgically (that was done to stop a problem he had with frequent seizures). See, “The Amazing Mind – Critical Role of Nāmagotta (Memories)” One should read the whole post, but I discuss patient H.M. in #6 there.

These are very interesting aspects. But I do not want to spend too much time on this since there are more pressing issues to address.

[Lal]

Johnny_Lim wrote: “Is there any reason why during NDE, the Gandhabba doesn’t talk to other entities? Communication appears to be exchange of emotions without spoken words..”

Gandhabba only has a manomaya kaya or “mental body.” Even though it has the outline of a physical body, there is very little “matter” there. That is why an average human cannot see a gandhabba.
– Without a physical body with a mouth, tongue, etc, it cannot get the sound out.

That is how one communicates with any Brahma too. Brahmas do not have physical bodies either. For example, when Brahma Sahampati had a “conversation” with the Buddha right after Buddha’s Enlightenment, there were no spoken words exchanged.
– It is just an exchange of ideas without words, just like in the dreams.

[Lal]

I just watched “Description:QED – Glimpses of Death (27 01 1988)”.

The explanation by Dr. Fenwick around 16.30 is a rational explanation of different types of experiences based on one’s upbringing. One’s mind tends to “re-construct” alien experiences to the best of its ability, based on one’s experiences and cultural upbringing.

AxelSnaxel wrote: “It is possible that a gandhabba may stay in the para loka as long as it feels it suitable,..”
– Getting into a new womb is determined mostly by kammic energy. The gandhabba is drawn into a “matching womb” meaning parents would have similar gati.
– Of course, it is possible that the gandhabba may stay close to such a couple because of “gati to gati” attraction. But the gandhabba cannot make that decision on its own.

Cubibobi (Lang) wrote: “When Buddha Kassapa’s sasana was over (the tipitaka from that period was lost, I suppose?), some of his teachings remained here and there in the Vedas, but people could get only the conventional meanings.”
– Yes. What happens is some teachings may still be there after the end of a Buddha Sasana, but only mundane interpretations remain.
– There will not be anyone with magga phala, especially those who can explain the deeper meanings.
– A good example is the interpretation of Anapanasati as “breath meditation” these days. But then Ariyas like Waharaka Thero come along and provide the correct interpretations. Then the teachings would re-surface for another stretch. Eventually, there will be no Ariyas to explain the deeper meanings and only the mundane meanings will be there.
– That is going to happen in about 2000 years. But there is going to be another Buddha, Buddha Maitreya, on this Earth. That would be the fifth and last Buddha on this Earth, i.e., in this Maha Kappa.
– To have five Buddhas in a given Maha Kappa is a rare occurrence. For example, before this Maha Kappa, there were 30 Maha Kappa without a single Buddha. See, #14 of “Pāramitā and Niyata Vivarana – Myths or Realities?”

– Also, a pacceka Buddha cannot explain the Dhamma to others. He would just live and attain Parinibbana even without others realizing that he was a Buddha. Vedic teachings are just transmitted generation to generation. But as time goes, more and more people add their own “mundane explanations” and the true teachings are lost over time. That will happen in about 2000 years. Even during those 2000 years, there are periods where the mundane teachings prevail over the true teachings. That was the case for hundreds of years until Waharaka Thero.

P.S. Of course, these Out-of-Body Experiences or Near-Death Experiences may give people the wrong idea that “everything will be fine” after death. Such experiences happen ONLY if one’s kammic energy for the human bhava has not yet run out. If the human bhava ends, then one would grasp a new bhava, and that in most cases, it is in a lower realm. The problem is, of course, that we are not able to hear from those.

[Lal]

Thanks for the interesting video by Michael Cremo, AxelSnaxel!
– Yes. He will be proven to be correct in the future.

As I explained in the post, “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” the Earth was first inhabited by humans with “fine bodies” like Brahma.

In addition to that sutta, there are several suttas that describe how most Vedic concepts originated from the teachings of Buddha Kassapa who was on this earth millions of years ago, before Buddha Gotama.
– Buddha Gotama explained that to a Brahmin by the name of Magandhiya who told the Buddha that his Vedic teachers recited a similar verse to Dhammapada Verse 204.
– See # 8 of the post, “Arōgyā Paramā Lābhā..”

[Lal]

The following is from AxelSnaxel. He had the same problem of posting as Lang.
– By the way, I just updated the forum software. Let us see whether this problem is still going to persist. It is not easy to switch to different software, and I would rather not spend time on that.
– My apologies to all who have had problems. Please keep a copy of a new post in case the problem persists. If you still run into a problem, please email it to me at [email protected].

Comment from AxelSnaxel:
Here I found a good and scientifically minded 30 min documentary on Near-Death Experiences:
Documentary – “Glimpses of Death” 1988
This one is good to show that death is not just going to sleep and never waking up again.

Then I found this lecture about human archeological artifacts dating millions of years back, showing that the current scientific understanding of humanity is limited
Michael Cremo: “Forbidden Archaeology”
I think this one will be of particular interest to you Lal, as it will help back up your claims in “the origin of life”

[Lal]

Good question, especially the part: “how to make good decisions every time.”

This is the basis or the foundation of the Noble Path.

As we know, before giving up the householder life, the Buddha was a prince and had a son, Rahula. Rahula also became a bhikkhu at age seven. Buddha’s advice to that young Ven. Rahula is detailed in the “Amba­laṭṭhi­ka­rāhu­lovāda Sutta (MN 61).”

A fairly good English translation is, “Discourse on an Exhortation to Rāhula at Ambalaṭṭhikā.”

The first part of the translation is not very good. But starting with the section “Reflection before Action” the translation is good.
– Please read that sutta and ask questions if clarification is needed.

Basically, the Buddha was telling Ven. Rahula that he should always be mindful of his actions, speech, and thoughts.
– If any of those can bring harm to oneself OR TO others one should not engage in such actions, speech, or thoughts.
– These are dasa akusala.

Furthermore, one should actively engage in actions, speech, or thoughts that would be for the benefit of oneself AND to others.
– These are dasa kusala.

This is discussed at, “Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)”

P.S. Since you mentioned Kāyānupassanā, it is discussed at:
“Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta“

[Lal]

The following post is from Cubibobi (Lang). Apparently, he was unable to get it posted.

I have actually been reading this site on rebirth maintained by Walter Semkiw (he calls it reincarnation) for a while.
“Reincarnation Research”

On the home page (bottom right) is a video called “Evidence of Reincarnation”. Starting at 5:51, it talks about a historical figure we all know about: Anne Frank. I find it convincing, and personally, I see a resemblance of the two — Anne Frank and Barbro Karlen, which is admittedly a little uncanny.

The site also has a section of many cases, including those of celebrity figures; true or not, it makes an entertaining read. Moreover, some are more convincing than others, which can help reinforce our view on rebirths.

Hope you enjoy it.
Lang

[Lal]

Thank you, Tobias.

I just made the corrections.

[Author]

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