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It is an interesting aspect, Daniel.
I would like to focus on one case study to save time. If you can recommend one, please do.
As a general comment, it is possible for something like this to happen. But the following must hold:
1. A given gandhabba can be in only one body at a given time.
2. It is possible for a gandhabba to come out of a womb, and for another gandhabba to take possession of that zygote in the womb.“After her “dead” experience, she emerged practically Egyptian. Is this because during that experience anusaya from the life in Egypt surfaced and dominated the rest of her present life?”
Her head injury (accident) may have triggered something in her brain circuit to be able to recall the past.
As I have explained in the post, “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body” brain plays a huge role in getting the sensory inputs to the manomaya kaya (gandhabba).
– For example, visuals coming through the eyes are processed by the batin and sent to the cakkhu pasada rupa in the gandhabba.
– In the same way, “namagotta” or memories come in through the “mana indriya” in the brain and are passed on to the hadaya vatthu. Of course, science has not identified the mana indriya.
– However, we have some clues about the location of the mana indriya from the studies discussed in the post, “Patient H.M. – Different Roles of Brain in Memory”Also, Jill Price started recalling detailed memories in the current life only after she got to a certain age: “Recent Evidence for Unbroken Memory Records (HSAM)”
– It is possible that something in her brain changed too.Good question.
I have not seen a breakdown. But it could be the following.
Sama = “same”
atta = “truth” or “refuge” or “Nibbana” depending on the context
niyama = principle or law
When you put all that together it rhymes like “Sammattaniyāma.”So, when someone gets to Sammattaniyāma one “starts taking refuge in Nibbana.”
Just updated the post, “Sōtapanna Anugāmi and a Sōtapanna“
Yes. They are equivalent.
The main requirements:
Sappurisasaṃsevo
saddhammassavanaṃ
yonisomanasikāro
dhammānudhammappaṭipattiwill fulfill Anuloma Khanti and Sammattaniyāma.
The key point is that while fulfilling those 4 conditions one must realize not only the fact that the rebirth process is filled with suffering but also the fact that Nibbana is the only solution.
See, “Sōtapanna Anugāmi and a Sōtapanna”I should have mentioned this post. Thanks!
P.S. I need to update that older post. Hope to do it soon.
Daniel wrote: “But I heard something about Angels who are able to use a real human physical body sometimes to communicate with us.”
– Not in Buddha Dhamma.Spontaneous birth of a human refers to the birth of a baby instantaneously, without starting with a zygote. Information on the zygote at, “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception,” one of the posts in the “Origin of Life” series.
– That happened at least once or twice during the time of the Buddha. I don’t remember the sutta. But there are no records of such birth in modern times.
– However, that is how the first set of human gandhabbas get hold of a “manussa kaya” or a “physical human body” after a human population is wiped out due to a natural disaster over a large region. Once enough humans are born in that geographic region, they multiply via the normal mode (womb-born.)P.S. This is the solution to the “chicken and egg problem” discussed in many discussion forums. The question there is “which came first, the chicken or the egg”? The answer is that chicken came first via such “opapatika” or instantaneous births.
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I watched the video and the evidence is compelling.
Daniel wrote: “Since we know from the Buddha’s Agañña Sutta, that the human gandhabba (or human bhava) is existing for much longer than a million years, because Brahmas and Devas are reborn in human bhava before being reborn as animals in the cycle of the solar system, I was wondering about an explanation of how homo sapiens sapiens came to be.
I had the following sketch:
In times, when there are extraordinary events affecting the planet, like solar flares or natural disasters, they could kill a big amount of species or embodied life, animals but also humans. Humans, over the millions of years, could also have had different forms of bodies, depending on the situation at that time. When such an event takes place, many beings will be living in the Gandhabba, because the nuclear radiations/solar flares/ floods have destroyed their bodies.”That is a reasonable explanation.
– Another possibility for ‘mass extinction” over large geographical areas is the following. It is possible for even a whole continent to “flip”, just like a coconut floating in water can flip. This was briefly mentioned in one of Waharaka Thero’s desanas. The life would need to “re-emerge” in a fashion that SEEMS TO BE compatible with Darwin’s evolutionary theory.
– We know that most archeological studies have been done in Africa. If that whole continent flipped a billion years ago, it is possible that life gradually emerged starting with microbes, plants, etc. Of course, that is not really evolution, but more in line with Daniel’s rough sketch outlined there.
– That means gandhabbas of lower animals would be reborn with corresponding physical animal bodies first as CONDITIONS become right (meaning enough vegetation present, etc.). Then larger animals can be born higher-up in the food chain, etc.Another point is that there are 4 modes of production of physical bodies of humans and animals.
These are described in the “Mahāsīhanāda Sutta (MN 12)”English translation there: “The Greater Discourse on the Lion’s Roar”
“Four Kinds of Generation
“Sāriputta, there are these four kinds of generation. What are the four? Egg-born generation, womb-born generation, moisture-born generation, and spontaneous generation.“What is egg-born generation? There are these beings born by breaking out of the shell of an egg; this is called egg-born generation. What is womb-born generation? There are these beings born by breaking out from the caul; this is called womb-born generation. What is moisture-born generation? There are these beings born in a rotten fish, in a rotten corpse, in rotten porridge, in a cesspit, or in a sewer; this is called moisture-born generation. What is spontaneous generation? There are gods and denizens of hell and certain human beings and some beings in the lower worlds; this is called spontaneous generation. These are the four kinds of generation.”
Even though humans are normally born via “womb-born generation” the other modes can be active especially in a situation like above. Here it is mostly the spontaneous generation.
– Same for animals.One last point about “moisture-born generation.” This is when the correct chemical composition, like a zygote (which normally takes place in a womb) forms so that a gandhabba can start a physical body, can happen under the conditions given above, i.e., rotten meat, etc.
– That is in effect how ‘test-tube babies” (or Dolly the sheep) are born outside a womb.I think I discussed some of these in the first few posts in the series on “Origin of Life”
Finally, I think there should be more archeological studies in India and Sri Lanka. It is unlikely that such a calamity happened in that region. We know, according to the Tipitaka, that teachings of Buddha Kassapa were transmitted (in a distorted form) via Vedic teachings. So, there seems to be an unbroken human timeline from Buddha Kassapa to Buddha Gotama.
Again, I don’t want to spend too much time researching these ideas. But my feeling is that such things could be uncovered by more archeological studies.
P.S. The relevant part in Pali in the above sutta:
“Catasso kho imā, sāriputta, yoniyo. Katamā catasso? Aṇḍajā yoni, jalābujā yoni, saṁsedajā yoni, opapātikā yoni.Katamā ca, sāriputta, aṇḍajā yoni? Ye kho te, sāriputta, sattā aṇḍakosaṁ abhinibbhijja jāyanti—ayaṁ vuccati, sāriputta, aṇḍajā yoni. Katamā ca, sāriputta, jalābujā yoni? Ye kho te, sāriputta, sattā vatthikosaṁ abhinibbhijja jāyanti—ayaṁ vuccati, sāriputta, jalābujā yoni. Katamā ca, sāriputta, saṁsedajā yoni? Ye kho te, sāriputta, sattā pūtimacche vā jāyanti pūtikuṇape vā pūtikummāse vā candanikāye vā oḷigalle vā jāyanti—ayaṁ vuccati, sāriputta, saṁsedajā yoni. Katamā ca, sāriputta, opapātikā yoni? Devā, nerayikā, ekacce ca manussā, ekacce ca vinipātikā—ayaṁ vuccati, sāriputta, opapātikā yoni. Imā kho, sāriputta, catasso yoniyo.”
Yesterday, after receiving the email from Daniel (that he was unable to post the link at the forum due to some reason), I remembered a post that I wrote a few years ago. That post may provide more information on this subject.
– Yes. I think it is a good subject to be discussed because incorrect meditation techniques labeled as “Buddhist meditations” can scare away people from the correct Buddhist meditation techniques.The following link on someone’s meditation experience at a meditation retreat was sent by DanielSt:
“When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led Me To Meltdown“
Thanks, Tobias.
I have revised both posts to make it clear.
“Two Versions of 37 Factors of Enlightenment”
“Pañca Indriya and Pañca Bala – Five Faculties and Five Powers”
Please read through and see whether both are self-consistent now.
“#1. Does preta’s have a āhāraja kāya or karaja kāya?”
– There are different kinds of pretas. Some are said to have an āhāraja kāya. But they have less-dense bodies like Devas.
“#2. To me, it seems like there’s a connection between pasada rupa’s and utuja kaya.”
– The time sequence is as follows. The kammaja kaya (with hadaya vatthu and pasada rupa) arise first at the patisandhi moment. It is created solely by kammic energy. That kammaja kaya starts generating citta and thus the cittaja kaya arises immediately afterward. Utuja rupa are produced by both the kammaja kaya and cittaja kaya and thus that comes next. That is the gandhabba with those three kāya.
– When that gandhabba gets into a womb, it starts making the āhāraja kāya or karaja kāya.“Isn’t it possible for vipaka to affect utuja kaya, which in turn can lead to sukha/dukha vedana arising?”
– No. That is why hell-beings have “solid bodies” that can feel the bodily dukkha vedana.
– A Deva feels sukha/dukha vedana because they have “solid-enough” bodies, even though less dense than ours. They also belong to kama loka. P.S. Just to clarify: Even though the gandhabba is human and belongs to the kama loka, it does not have a nose, tongue, and a physical body for touch. “Gandha + abba” does not happen through a nose. It is a different mechanism. Devas have all five physical senses.
– Anyway, you need to pause and think before asking more questions.“If the Gandhabba is not embodied, there are no “bodily” sensations? I mean, there are no sensations generated through utuja kaya and impinging on “kaya pasada rupa”?”
– How can there be “bodily sensations” if the physical body is not active??
“When Gandhabba is not embodied, it should also feel bodily sensations due to the impingement of kaya rupa from within, i.e. from utuja kaya, right?”
– No. When the gandhabba is out of the body, there will be no bodily sensations, because the body would be like a piece of wood.
“There are also cases of people, who have parts of their body removed, but still feel body sensations in that area (“phantom hand”). Are these sensations generated from the utuja kaya, which is still there?”
– Yes.
– You may have read V. S. Ramachandran’s popular book, “Phantoms in the Brain” (1998). If not, that would be a good read.
– Also read the post, “Vision (Cakkhu Viññāṇa) is Not Just Seeing” I mention that book there.This issue has been discussed at length in two threads. Following is a post of mine in one of them:
“Triplegemstudent wrote to me and we had a discussion via email. I am just going to post one of my emails and his last email.
My email:
This issue was discussed at:
“Post on “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)”
The essence of the discussion is in my following reply there, close to the top of the thread, was as follows:“Dr. J Chakma wrote: “Out of 4 antakkappas a living being spend 3 anatakkappas (i.e. 75% time of a mahakappa) in Brahma realm (Abhassara) and enjoy jhanic pleasure. However, Buddha told this sansara is full of suffering (dukha and dukkha). So, a being even if it spent rest of the mahakappa in apayas, the being still spends 75% of time in Good realm (abhassara realm). So, theoretically a being enjoys more than it suffers.”
That is correct.
But as you said after that, the suffering, while it lasts, is unbearable.To get a perspective consider the following scenario: If one is given the opportunity to enjoy all the comforts in the world for 9 months on the condition that one would then be subjected to various forms of torture (burned alive, cut into pieces only to reassembled instantaneously and to go through the whole process again, etc) incessantly for the next 3 months, would that be acceptable?
I don’t think one would even agree to one day of such suffering even for 9 months of luxurious living.”
Then I asked the Triplegemstudent:
Would you take that offer?
Imagine the worst suffering that you ever experienced in your life.
– Suffering in an apaya is MUCH worse. We can get a glimpse of it by thinking about an animal in the wild (not a pet). How many old animals are in a jungle? They are eaten alive as soon as they get a bit old.Following is part of the final response of the Triplegemstudent:
“I read the whole discussion before and that’s why the idea/thought came to my mind. I wasn’t able to find a satisfactory answer including what you, myself or anyone answered. In my previous e-mail before this one, what I was trying to say was what I came to realize is what me and Dr. J Chakam is/was thinking/saying how we spend more time in the Brahma realms and therefore “should” be enjoying more pleasure is the wrong/incorrect thinking.
Because rather one is enjoying more pleasure or suffering, it’s still Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta in any of the 31 realms of existence. As long as we’re stuck in the rebirth process Sansara, not attaining Magga phala or Nibbana, the end result is always more suffering. And like you said, the suffering in the apaya is much worse and possibly greater > than any pleasures we receive.
So even when I get to enjoy 9 months of pleasure, that’s still Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta. That 9 months of pleasure is Anatta, unfruitful/no essence/no refuge. That would be the same as the 3 months suffering for it.
Because that 9 and 3 months is both Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta I shouldn’t/don’t want to even to get involved with the pleasure or suffering in the first place because all that is Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta. It’s better to attain Magga Phala/Nibbana, so that I don’t even have to make such a decision/or be in that position like in your example in the first place.
This is what I meant when I said, what me and Dr. J Chakma was thinking is wrong/incorrect.”
My comment:
I am impressed by his reply.
He wrote: “So even when I get to enjoy 9 months of pleasure, that’s still Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta. That 9 months of pleasure is Anatta, unfruitful/no essence/no refuge. That would be the same as the 3 months suffering for it.”He realized the deeper aspect of it. That is in a way the First Noble Truth that the Buddha was trying to explain.
– What we PERCEIVE to be a pleasure (in sensory pleasures or even in jhanic pleasures in those Brahma realms) has “hidden suffering.” The more one is enamored by them, the more difficult it becomes to be able to free of ALL future suffering.*****
The above comment was posted on September 15, 2020 at 2:24 pm in the thread “First noble truth”
*****
Daniel’s other question:
“In Ven Bodhi’s book on Abhidhamma, on page 230, he lists the rebirth-destinations for individual realms. Are these correct in your opinion? According to these, a Brahman would not immediately go to hell in a next bhava, but would be reborn as Deva or human and could go to hell or apāyā in a bhava after that.– Yes. I agree with that. A Brahma would not be born directly in an apaya upon death.
