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Yes. The first quote you give is correct.
Yes. Communicating one’s thoughts to others is not easy. But we should try our best.
The pali version and the English translation at Sutta Central: “Tapussa Sutta (AN 9.41)”
#1 and #2 questions: Yes. The sutta compares the anariya jhanas the Buddha attained prior to the Buddhahood (with Alara Kalama and Uddakarama Putta) and the Ariya jhana after the Buddhahood.
It is explained in the post, “Tapussa Sutta (AN 9.41)– Akuppā Cētōvimutti“
I have revised the post “Key to Calming the Mind – The Five Hindrances” to take into account the suggestion by Dipo in the first comment on this thread. Thanks, Dipo!
– I have made a few more revisions to the post too.Many suttas describe “assada, adinava, nissrana” or “sensory gratification/perceived sukha of them”, the bad consequences of getting attached, and attaining Nibbana based on that detachment.
See, for example, “Assāda Sutta (SN 22.26)”
All average humans have “assada.”
– When they learn Buddha Dhamma (Noble Truths/PS/Tialkkhana) some will be able to see dangers of such attachments (adinava.)
– When they follow the Noble Path they will end the suffering (nissarana).Of course, assada (or craving sukha) arises because of the nicca sanna.
– So, one goes from nicca, sukha, atta to anicca dukkha, anatta understanding, upon learning the true Buddha Dhamma.Another way to say the same thing: Average humans perceive sensory pleasures as being good.
– Only after learning Buddha Dhamma do they realize the “hidden dangers” of such attachments.Christian wrote: “The problem with checking is that person who checks it needs to have considerate high panna too.”
Yes. That could be correct regarding deeper aspects of Buddha Dhamma, like describing anicca and anatta.
However, there are many other contradictions that can be seen without any knowledge of Pali or even any knowledge of the basic aspects of Buddhism.
For example, the verse, “..avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā, saṅkhāra paccayā viññāṇaṁ.” in the “Paṭhamabodhi Sutta (Ud 1.1)“ is translated as “.Ignorance is a condition for choices. Choices are a condition for consciousness.”
Now the next sutta (“Dutiyabodhi Sutta (Ud 1.2)“) describes what happens when one attains Buddhahood/Arahanthood. That is the reverse of Paticca Samuppada’s steps in the above: “.avijjā nirodhā saṅkhāranirodho, saṅkhāra nirodhā viññāṇa nirodho.”
– That is translated as “.When ignorance ceases, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases..”Did the Buddha (or any Arahant) lose consciousness upon attaining Buddhahood/Arahanthood?
– The problem should be obvious to even a child!The problem is that even to this day, those translators don’t seem to understand that there are different types of viññāṇa.
– Translating viññāṇa as “consciousness” is only appropriate for “vipaka viññāṇa.”
– Viññāṇa in Paticca Samuppada is “kamma viññāṇa.”I discussed this in detail (with those references) in the post: “Distortion of Pāli Keywords in Paṭicca Samuppāda”
– I don’t understand why no one is questioning those translators about such obvious contradictions.That is described in the Agganna Sutta.
– I have only written an introduction to the sutta: “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)“1 user thanked author for this post.
“Uddhacca” is “high-mindedness” (high regard for oneself) which can be at various levels and completely removed only at the Arahant stage.
“Kukkucca” is the tendency to do lowly things such as mistreating others. It goes away probably at the Sotapanna stage.
– Those are two separate cetasika: “Cetasika (Mental Factors)”When they appear together, “uddhacca kukkucca” is one of the five nivarana that “covers a mind” and prevents “seeing the true nature of the world.” Here, one tends to do “lowly things” based on high-mindedness, power, etc.
Yes. It is possible that they may have roots in “acca“. I need to think about that.
Yes to all three.
You wrote: Sangha nayakas (and many other bhikkhus) in Sri Lanka doesn’t accept Waharaka Thero’s interpretations, instead they treat this sect as “rebels” and having strong miccha ditthi distorting the Buddha’s words and spreading lies to the public.”
It does not matter if “Sangha nayakas” do not accept the interpretations of Waharaka Thero.
– The question to be asked is: “Is there a way to check who is teaching the correct Dhamma.The only way to do that is to “find holes” in a given interpretation.
– I have done that in many posts at this website.
– In fact, I recently started a new section to point out the inconsistencies/contradictions of many interpretations pushed by those “Sangha nayakas”: “Elephants in the Room”
– I welcome any evidence that may contradict my points in those posts.
– Of course, I do understand that those incorrect interpretations have come down over many generations. It is not the fault of “Sangha nayakas” DIRECTLY.
– However, they need to take time and evaluate the evidence that I have provided. My issue with them is that they are so adamant in their wrong views, even after evidence is presented that they DO have wrong views about Buddha Dhamma.They may not do that. It is up to them. But it is the responsibility of others to read both sides and decide which interpretations are correct.
– I may have made some MINOR errors too. But those would be insignificant compared to the mistakes they have made in the foundations of Buddha Dhamma.Yes to all three.
You wrote:”Sangha nayakas (and many other bhikkhus) in Sri Lanka doesn’t accept Waharaka Thero’s interpretations, instead they treat this sect as “rebels” and having strong miccha ditthi distorting the Buddha’s words and spreading lies to the public.”
It does not matter if “Sangha nayakas” do not accept the interpretations of Waharaka Thero.
– The question to be asked is: “Is there a way to check who is teaching the correct Dhamma?”The only way to do that is to “find holes” in a given interpretation.
– I have done that in many posts on this website.
– In fact, I recently started a new section to point out the inconsistencies/contradictions of many interpretations pushed by those “Sangha nayakas”: “Elephants in the Room”
– I welcome any evidence that may contradict my points in those posts.
– Of course, I do understand that those incorrect interpretations have come down over many generations. It is not the fault of “Sangha nayakas” DIRECTLY.
– However, they need to take time and evaluate the evidence that I have provided. My issue with them is that they are so adamant in their wrong views, even after evidence is presented that they DO have wrong views about Buddha Dhamma.They may not do that. It is up to them. But it is the responsibility of others to read both sides and decide which interpretations are correct.
– I may have made some MINOR errors too. But those would be insignificant compared to the mistakes they have made in the foundational aspects of Buddha Dhamma.Yes. What you quoted is correct: “In modern translations, it is defined as “causing a schism in the Sangha (order of monks)”.
How that schism takes place is described in the “Saṅghabheda Sutta (AN 10.37)”.
A good example is the incorrect interpretation of anicca and anatta as impermanence and no-self.
– That had blocked the path of many people over the past several hundred years!
– Teaching “adhamma” as “Buddha Dhamma” can have serious kammic consequences.Good point. I just revised the post in question to answer the question.
“Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs”The explanation is at the very end of the post.
Any statement needs to be taken in context.
– Rebirth is stopped as one gets rid of the defilements (asava/anusaya).
– That is clearer with the ten samyojana. Rebirths in certain realms are stopped as one breaks successive samyojana.
– When all defilements are removed, no more rebirths in any realm.“Kiccho” means very rare, extremely rare.
– “maccana jivitam” means “a man’s life”. “Macca” is a man (woman) with a physical body. Even within a human bhava, birth with a physical body is not guaranteed/can be difficult.So, it says that it is extremely rare to get a human (manussa) birth, to have a physical human body, to hear (correct) Buddha Dhamma, and for a Buddha to arise in the world.
The following translation seems to be the closest: “Dhammapada Verse 182“
That is a good way to put it. Thanks, Tobias.
– Of course, it is experienced at different levels corresponding to eight stages: Sotapanna Anugami through Arahant.
P.S. I recently came across the following sutta: “Nirāmisa Sutta (SN 36.31)”
Per that sutta, “niramisa sukha” can be experienced while on the mundane path.
– A stronger version of “nirāmisatara sukha” is experienced in the Lokuttara Path, starting with the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
– It is possible that it is called “nirāmisatara sukha” probably because it will not go away even in future lives.P.P.S. We also need to keep in mind that “sukha” in Buddha Dhamma is the “absence of suffering”.
– A good analogy is the following. Suppose someone has a chronic headache that has been there for a long time. If they recover from it, they would just not feel that suffering anymore. It is not an “added sukha vedana”.
– We can say that the mind is “less burdened”.Thank you both for sharing your thoughts. It is heartwarming to see the effort and determination and also the willingness to share ideas and offer encouragement.
lodonyo asked: “What I need to know now is, what exactly reaches over to another birth assuming there is one, as per proper planning of a trip.”
Nibbana is all about “ending the trip from one birth to another.” But I understand what you mean.
– What reaches over to the next life is one’s REMAINING gati,anusaya, samyojana, anusaya, avijja, etc.
– It is CRITICAL to get rid of the worst form of “apayagami gati” that could bring rebirth in the apayas.
– That essentially requires an understanding of the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature of this world. From your description, you seem to have that understanding. It is important to understand how births in various realms (especially apayas) can arise via the Paticca Samuppada process.
– We may have even done “apayagami deeds” earlier this life; they may try to bring rebirth in an apaya at the dying moment. However, as long as one does not have such “apayagami gati” left NOW, one’s mind WILL NOT grasp such a rebirth.I think most of your concerns can be addressed in the above way.
Wallasmulle Abhaya Thero emphasizes jhana, but he has made it very clear that one MUST first comprehend anicca, dukkha, anatta, and Paticca Samuppada (PS), i.e., the Four Noble Truths about how suffering arises.
– Cultivating jhana is a SECONDARY step. But, of course, it is good to cultivate jhana AFTER one has completed the first step.
– The Buddha encouraged cultivating jhana for “stress relief” in this life. Furthermore, he mostly encouraged bhikkhus to cultivate jhana. I have not seen a Tipitaka sutta where he encouraged lay people to cultivate jhana.
– Make effort according to the priorities. Cultivating anaraiya jhana (i.e., without comprehending Tilakkhna/PS/Four Noble Truths) is a waste of time. There is no jhana in the Eightfold Noble Path, only Samma Samadhi.
– P.S. When the Noble Path is complete (i.e., at the completion of Samma Samadhi), it will be easy to get all jhanas at the Arahant stage. Of course, some people AUTOMATICALLY get to anariya jhana even before becoming Sotapanna Anugami due to Samsaric habits. That is good, but one must not be fooled that one has magga phala.
