Siebe said, “I do not know for sure if the Budddha taught …”that one cannot and does not need to repay all one’s kammic (sansarik) debt to attain nibbana”.
See for example this lines:
“Bhikkhus, I do not say that there is a termination of volitional kamma that has been done and accumulated so long as one has not experienced its results, and that may be in this very life, or in the next rebirth, or on some subsequent occasion. But I do not say that there is making an end of suffering so long as one has not experienced the results of volitional kamma that has been done and accumulated“.” (END OF QUOTE)
I see that my copy and paste did not come out well. But I have given the referennce link.
Here is the Pali version of the above verse from a sutta (Paṭhama Ssañcetanika Sutta, AN 10.217) that Siebe quoted:
“Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṃ kammānaṃ katānaṃ upacitānaṃ appaṭi¬saṃ¬ve¬ditvā byantībhāvaṃ vadāmi. Tañca kho diṭṭheva dhamme upapajje vā apare vā pariyāye. Na tvevāhaṃ, bhikkhave, sañcetanikānaṃ kammānaṃ katānaṃ upacitānaṃ appaṭi¬saṃ¬ve¬ditvā duk¬khas¬san¬takiri¬yaṃ vadāmi.”
The translation given by Siebe is NOT CORRECT. One has to be careful with translations as I keep saying. There is nowhere in the verse that says anything about TERMINATION OF KAMMA. Buddha says there, “ I do not say (na aham) that completed and accumulated kamma done via sancetana (defiled intentions) will not bring (appatisamveditva) vipaka and suffering in this life, paralowa, or in other (future) lives.”
In other words, as long as there are past kamma (unpaid), there is suffering to be had. But it DOES NOT say one has to get rid of all kamma to attain Nibbana. Even though an Arahant (like Angulimala) may have a lot of unpaid kamma left, he would not be reborn with a physical body to bring about those kamma vipaka. This is a VERY IMPORTANT point to understand.
Furthermore, this sutta also confirms what I said about dasa akusala being at the root of all bad kamma vipaka. That part of the sutta translation is correct (after the first several verses). Here is the English version of the sutta, that everyone should read:”217. Volitional (1)“.
Siebe said: “Regarding the suffering the Budddha talks about. He also talks about ending the bodily suffering. Maybe not in this live but in future lives by not grasping a new body again and ending the proces of rebirth.”
That is correct. There is absolutely no suffering upon Paribbana (death of an Arahant) because he/she in not reborn anywhere in the 31 realms of this world. But it is also important to understand that there is no MENTAL suffering (samphassa ja vedana) for a living Arahant; just bodily pains due to past kamma.
By the way, I am planning to write a post on why Kamma is the root cause for bodily suffering. The other seven types mentioned in those three suttas that Siebe mentioned in this discussion, are not ROOT CAUSES, but really effects of past kamma that act as causes. It could take some time, since I am busy with many other things.
Lastly, I just saw the most recent comment by Akvan and agree with it. Akavan said: “However, I need to find a sutta reference to kamma being the root / primary cause. If anyone does come across something please let me know.”
There are many suttas: Kamma vibhanga suttas (2), Kamma Nidana sutta, Kamma suttas, etc. Probably Siebe can provide a long list.