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The following comment is from y not:
Going with what the Buddha says:Sansara has no (traceable) beginning; but also, avijja too has no (traceable) beginning: “A first beginning of ignorance cannot be conceived, (of which it can be said), ‘Before that, there was no ignorance and it came to be after”. So there can be no question as to the cause of its arising.The Path eliminates the defilements. If there were no Nibbana, it would lead to a suffering -free state, which would equatewith a neutral state only. In the mundane sense, the elimination of suffering in itself and by itself does not constitute happiness. It only leads to it. But in the case of Nibbana, since Nibbana is there already, the Pure Mind ( covered with raga, dvesha and moha), thus freed, automatically attains Nibbana, becomes Nibbana, ‘becomes’ what it intrinsically is.Compare: Someone is in pain, in time recovers from pain, and later enjoys a favourite activity, physical or mental. The first is suffering, the second relief and the third happiness. Here, recovery from pain is not the happiness, but is essential for happiness to follow. There can be no happiness where there is pain. With Nibbana, the attainment of happiness goes hand-in -hand with the elimination of suffering – there is no need to go in search of anything, for Nibbana is the Pure Mind itself shorn of defilements.Pathfinder: The pure mind never became defiled. I has always been defiled. And there can be no going back ‘to getting defiled’after Nibbana. Will anyone want to keep an item of food that made him sick in the fridge for later use?1 user thanked author for this post.
It is “Vimuttāyatana Sutta (AN 5.26).”
P.S. Even though he said, “Panca Vimuttāyatana Sutta,” it is “Vimuttāyatana Sutta.”
Yes. There is a sutta that describes that.
- I don’t recall the name offhand. If he did mention the name, let me know around what time, and I can listen and figure out the sutta‘s name.
No. That will not happen because once an Arahant dies (Parinibbana), he/she will be separated entirely from the world of 31 realms.
- There is no way to get another birth anywhere within “this world.”
- One would be “completely released” from any future suffering!
- As we have discussed (for anyone without at least the Sotapanna stage of Nibbana), one is not free of rebirths in the suffering-filled four lowest realms, even though one can be born in the “higher realms” with much less suffering on and off.
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“Upasampajja” is related to “sampajānakārī” and is about “coming to that state with mindfulness.”
- See “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)“: “Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, bhikkhu abhikkante paṭikkante sampajānakārī hoti, ālokite vilokite sampajānakārī hoti, samiñjite pasārite sampajānakārī hoti, saṅghāṭipattacīvaradhāraṇe sampajānakārī hoti, asite pīte khāyite sāyite sampajānakārī hoti, uccārapassāvakamme sampajānakārī hoti, gate ṭhite nisinne sutte jāgarite bhāsite tuṇhībhāve sampajānakārī hoti.”
- Also, see “Kāyānupassanā – The Section on Habits (Sampajanapabba).“
P.S. When one cultivates mindfulness (“sampajānakārī“), one gets to “live with the resulting calm state” (upasampajja viharati.)
This is a deep issue.
- It is impossible to figure out WHEN any given mind got covered with defilements.
- The Buddha declared that tracing back to such an instance is impossible. Right after attaining the Buddhahood, he recalled his past lives at an unimaginably high rate for a long time (probably a few days? I don’t remember where that account is in the Tipitaka). But he said he could not find a “beginning.”
- The verse, “Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro,” OR “Bhikkhus, this rebirth process has no known beginning” appears in several suttas. See, for example, “Tiṇakaṭṭha Sutta (SN 15.1).”
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The Buddhist way of living is simple living.
- The Buddha taught that pursuing worldly pleasures is a waste of time in the “long term,” meaning in the rebirth process.
- Those who practice with understanding will have no incentive to live in mansions, look for oil, or fly/drive around for pleasure-seeking, for example.
- Buddhist practice is all about taming the mind. It does not require material wealth.
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The Pali word for “human” is “manussa.”
- The human realm is one of the 31 realms. It belongs to “kama loka” and lies between the four lowest realms (apayas) and the six Deva realms in the kama loka.
- It is a good idea to have a general understanding of the 31 realms: “31 Realms of Existence.”
Now, all those 31 realms are associated with any planet with life. Of course, modern science has not found any other planets with life outside the Earth. Even on Earth, they know only the human and animal realms.
- We generally use the term “alien” to describe intelligent life outside the Earth. Since scientists believe there can be life on other planets associated with other stars, they have been looking for signs of “alien life” and the possibility of aliens visiting Earth.
- By the way, the main reason scientists have not detected life outside Earth is the following: The nearest star with planets is four light years away. One light year is the distance traveled by light in a year. Look that up, and you will understand that a spaceship (with current technology) will take thousands of years to reach the nearest planet.
According to the Buddha, there are countless planets (cakkavala) with life. Each of those will have the same structure with 31 realms I described above.
- Therefore, if scientists find life outside the Solar system, those “aliens” may not be that different. However, their physical features are likely to be different because the size of the planet can significantly influence that.
What makes us human is our character/habits. For example, animals have very different character/habits and much lower intelligence. But those animals had been human and had cultivated “bad and animal-like character” that led to their birth as animals.
- That is a complex subject, but the basic ideas are in “The Law of Attraction, Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Āsavas),”
“Habits, Goals, and Character (Gati),” and “Saṃsāric Habits and āsavā”.
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Yash: “I have heard if someone has an intention to kill, and he kills, it doesn’t matter if he didn’t know that it was his father, the anantariya kamma would have been committed, as the nature knows everything.”
1. “Nature knows everything” is a colloquial saying, not to be taken literally. No “entity” knows everything (like a God or Creator.)
- The world (nature) runs on a set of rules or laws. In Buddha Dhamma that is Paticca Samuppada. The Buddha did not come up with a set of rules (Paticca Samuppada). Rather, he discovered that Paticca Samuppada describes the rules of nature.
- Whether there is a Buddha in the world or not (some eons or maha kappas do not have a single Buddha) Paticca Samuppada still applies.
2. One aspect of nature’s laws is that everything is interconnected. Scientists are gradually coming to that realization. One aspect of this is “non-locality,” and a recent Nobel prize was awarded to scientists who confirmed this “non-local” nature. I discussed that in the “Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma” section. For example, see #3, #4 of “Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma – Introduction.”
- Specifically, see “Quantum Entanglement – We Are All Connected.” That post is in a different section.
3. With that background in mind, let us look at Yash’s question #1.
- All our actions in this life AND in all previous lives are interconnected with the lives of other sentient beings. Each “lifestream” flows according to Paticca Samuppada and takes into account what has happened up to now.
- That is why it is impossible to sort out kamma vipaka. There are too many factors involved. Thus, “kamma vipaka” is one of the four “inconceivable things” (acinteyya.)
- Suppose X gets separated from his biological parents (Y being the father) at birth. Yet, X and Y remain “connected.” Thus, even if X kills Y after growing up (without having any idea that Y is his father), the following holds: (i) X killed Y, and (ii) Y is X’s father.
- There, the intention was to kill. But with or without knowing “the killed” was the father. Hence it becomes an anantariya kamma.
- It works the other way, too. If X had become a Sotapanna, he would have been unable to kill Y. Nature’s laws (Paticca Samuppada) would have prevented that.
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Yash: “But Ven. Amadassana Thero said that if we give alms to a Bhikku who has lied to be an Arahant, whom we think is an Arahant, we would receive immense merits as in our minds we are giving to an Arahant, but that Bhikku would suffer immensely as he is not an Arahant( he lied intentionally).
In the second case, why doesn’t nature “interfere”?”
2. This one is easier to figure out.
- A bhikkhu who lies about being an Arahant does it with intention. Declaring Arahanthood falsely is done with greed.
- However, a person offering a meal to that bhikkhu, thinking he is an Arahant, has genuine faith (saddha.)
- In both cases, the javana power in one’s cittas (thoughts) is what counts. In the first case, those javanas are defiled greatly by greed. While knowing that the Buddha has taught that such a false declaration is an anantariya kamma, one must have a truly defiled mind to make such a declaration.
- In the second case, the Buddha has mentioned in many suttas that even offering to a bhikkhu who may be corrupt will not deter one’s merits as long as one intends to make the offering to the Sangha who represents the Buddha.
- There is no need to invoke the explanation for the first question here. Nature cannot/does not “interfere” in any situation; “interfere” implies an intention. Nature runs automatically based on Paticca Samuppada.
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Pathfinder: “I have read the posts, and my understanding is that moral conduct and good deeds are required to attain Nibbana. Howver, it still seems that the main reason behind doing good deeds is to work towards Nibbana. Again I raise the example of Ariya Metta Bhāvana. I would think that people do it to progress, or at least start off this habit to progress on the path, more so than relieving all beings of suffering. Hence the intention becomes more of “I want to do good deeds and make my mind suitable for learning dhamma” more so than “I want to rid all beings of suffering” when doing Metta Bhāvana. Why else would people start doing Metta Bhāvana?
- Yes. That is quite correct.
- There are two major steps to Nibbana: (i) One must cultivate “moral conduct” (mundane sila) and also get rid of the ten wrong views. (ii) After that one can start comprehending the Four Noble Truths. The point is without believing in rebirth or the existence of other realms, it is not possible to grasp the deeper concepts like the Four Noble Truths and Paticca Samuppada.
- See “What is Unique in Buddha Dhamma?“
Pathfinder: “Why do Arahants still do good?”
- They do that out of compassion. They have fully understood what suffering is (it is not limited to this life.)
- In fact, it would be better for them to terminate life and end their “remaining suffering arising from the physical body they were born with.” But they don’t do that out of compassion. They want to help others as much as they can, as long as they live.
- There were a couple of Arahants who had unbearable bodily suffering (due to illnesses). They got permission from the Buddha to commit suicide. There was no point in them bearing that suffering since they could not help anyone.
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Yes. Yash’s explanation is correct.
The following posts could also be helpful:
Please feel free to ask questions.
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Yes. Yash’s explanation is correct.
The following are three posts related to providing answers to similar questions.
- Is It Necessary for a Buddhist to Eliminate Sensual Desires?
- Sila, Samadhi, Panna to Panna, Sila, Samadhi
- Six Root Causes – Loka Samudaya (Arising of Suffering) and Loka Nirodhaya (Nibbāna)
Please feel free to ask questions.
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This is a deeper issue, as I pointed out in my earlier on May 14, 2024 at 8:33 pm (post # 49756). The following is what I stated there:
1. Here is another translation with the Pali: “Oghataraṇa Sutta (SN 1.1).”
- This short sutta has deep meanings regarding how a puthujjana is kept away from Nibbana. In many suttas, attaining Nibbana is compared to crossing an ocean/river/flood and going from this shore (this world) to the further shore (Nibbana.)
- A puthujjana attaches to a sensory input in two stages, explained as upaya/upadana or, equivalently, “purana kamma“/”nava kamma” stages. For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- One who lands in the stream (flood) sinks to the bottom; if he grasps a floating object, he will be swept away by the stream (flood).
- The Deva asked, “How did you cross the flood”? and the Buddha answered, “By neither landing nor grasping to something (that was floating), I crossed the flood.”
- The two stages are discussed in the posts “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment” and “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation“
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You are referring to the main point of “For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- This needs to be done in two stages: First, one stops grasping arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage. In particular, one stops doing immoral deeds. That happens at the Sotapanna stage. Then, one starts working on the second step, trying to comprehend the deeper aspects of the Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada.
- That second step is to avoid “landing (patiṭṭha) in kama bhava” and attain the Anagami stage.
When one is free of the rebirths in the kama loka, then that process needs to be repeated to get released from the rupa loka and arupa loka. P.S. That can happen after the Anagami stage.
- Therefore, first focus on attaining the Sotapanna stage by getting rid of sakkaya ditthi, i.e., realizing the unfruitfulness/dangers of attaching to things in this world.
- As I mentioned many times, understanding “distorted sanna” helps in all those steps, but that approach may be too difficult for those who do not have enough background. For example, one could start with the “Paṭicca Samuppāda” section. You can review the subsections and pick which subsections/posts are suitable.
- The key to making progress is to start at a point where one understands most of a post but gets stuck in some issues. At that point, one should quote that post and ask questions to get those issues resolved. It is pointless to start at an advanced post or section.
I don’t think most people have spent enough time seriously contemplating the series of posts I mentioned in my reply to Tobias in my later comment.
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The following is that exchange:
Tobias: “What means “landing” in relation to kama dhatu, kama sanna, kama sankappa…? I guess it is the purana kamma stage.”
- That is correct.
Tobias: “But how can the Bodhisatta avoid kama dhatu (with kama sanna)? “
- He could not/did not avoid it. As we discussed, even the Buddha or an Arahant also experiences the kama sanna (e.g., sweetness of sugar). Anyone born with a human body would automatically get the kama sanna because it comes with the “uppatti bhavanga.”
- So, they all go through the kama dhatu and kama sanna stages, but NOT to the kama sankappa stage.
- The Buddha or an Arahant would still be in the kama dhatu but NOT in kama bhava. The Bodhisatta was in kama bhava, but he overcame it during the Enlightenment.
- That is explained in “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind“. After that, we discussed purana kamma and nava kamma. See the sequence of posts in “Is There a “Self”?” Then we moved to the “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” section.
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Note: Please avoid using bright red to highlight sentences. That color is hard on the eyes!
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Yes. The central theme is correct.
- We can also think of it as follows, starting with an arammana (sensory input): We attach ( with tanha) to the arammana , expecting it to provide more happiness. That attachment culminates in upadana (pulling it close our mind with stronger attachment or “tanha paccaya upadana“), and we generate abhisankhara (kammic energy) by acting with avijja (“avijja paccaya sankhara.”)
- That kammic energy brings future rebirths.
- That is how the whole process goes on and on forever.
2(b) above in not correct.
- Engaging in punna kamma is essential to make the possibility of future rebirths in “good realms” and to avoid rebirths in apayas. See, for example, “Sumana Sutta (AN 5.31).”
- Also see #6 of “Rebirths Take Place According to Abhisaṅkhāra.”
- However, one must realize that engaging in punna kamma, by itself, is not enough to stop future suffering. One must convert punna kamma to kusala kamma by comprehending 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana.
