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Hello Chan,
Good. I have a fairly good idea. It seems that you are well-versed with the fundamentals.
I get many requests for phone/Skype chats. Unfortunately, I do not have enough time in a day.
But I will think about a way to get you to look at the issue of “getting to Samma Ditthi” maybe from a bit different perspective. It may take a day or two, but I will post some suggestions here.
In the meantime, I wonder whether you have read posts in the new section that I started recently;
“Buddha Dhamma – A Scientific Approach”
– It is a different approach and could be appealing to someone with a technical/scientific background like yourself.Hello Lang,
I think you had the wrong title for the post? I just revised the topic title.
I think you meant the recent post, “Rupa and Rupakkhandha, Nāma and Nāmagotta”
It is a good idea to provide the link to the post in question. That way, there is no ambiguity and also others can see what you refer to.
Regarding your question:
The recalled memory comes back with EXACTLY the same rupa (image) and the associated vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana felt at that time in the past (if it can be recalled with precision; see below).
– That is what I stated in #7, which had the statement: “I must emphasize that one’s experiences are the same as one’s thoughts that arose in mind at THAT TIME.”
– In #8 I provided evidence from the video that was in a previous post. Please watch that video again if not clear.P.S. Of course, those of us who do not have HSAM do not fully experience past memories. But those people with HSAM do, as I discussed in #8.
P.P.S. I read #7 again. You are correct that it gives the impression that ALL OF US will re-live past experiences. Thanks for pointing that out. I just revised #7 as follows:
7. Pick the name of a friend that you have not seen for many years. How long does it take to recall his/her face? Almost instantly.
– That is the same way those people with HSAM recall their past. I urge everyone to re-read the post, “Autobiographical Memory – Preserved in Nāma Loka.”
– That post gives an idea of how precisely one’s experiences are preserved in the nāma loka. I must emphasize that one’s experiences are the same as one’s thoughts that arose in mind at THAT TIME. However, that depends on one’s ability to recall that past memory. An average human doesn’t even remember many past events.
– When a person with HSAM recalls a past event, he/she RE-LIVES that experience. But it is not so vivid for those who do not have HSAM.
– But the point is that over 50 people have such vivid and detailed “re-living” of past experiences means that those detailed records have been kept somewhere.Hello Chan,
What you are asking is to explain the basis of Buddha Dhamma. That cannot be done in a reply in a discussion forum.
However, I can point you in the right direction.
– First, I need to know how much exposure you have had to Buddha Dhamma. Please provide a brief description.Here are some points I would like you to address:
– Are you a practicing Buddhist or have no idea of what Buddhism is?
– Do you believe in rebirth?
– Do you know what the ten wrong views (miccha ditthi) are?
– Have you read any sections on the pure dhamma website? If so, which ones? Any comments on what you have read may help me get an idea of your current understanding.Hello Jonathan,
Music and Buddha Dhamma do not mix well.
I understand that music provides temporary relief from day-to-day stresses.
– But the goal of Buddha Dhamma is to get to a permanent solution to the much deeper problem of suffering.But music (like all other sensory pleasures) is a hindrance to practicing the path of the Buddha.
I have removed the link from your post.
– I wish you well with your efforts.Tobias asked: “What means paccavekkhana-ñana?”
That means to VERIFY by oneself.
Seeing the truth of something is the first step. That gets rid of the wrong views and one SEES the real nature of the world.
But verifying the truth of that by EXPERIENCE needs more work, more contemplation.
For example, a Sotapnna can SEE the bad consequences of engaging in sensual pleasures.
– However, the tendency to like sensual pleasures is still there. That goes away in two more steps of Sakadagami and Anagami stages.In other words, a Sotapanna has removed ditthi vipallasa, but still has sanna vipallasa.
“Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect Sankhāra”Also see, “How to Remove Sanna and Citta Vipallasa About Dukkha and Asubha“
Good Point, Tobias.
I just revised the post to remove the “fully” prefix.
A Sotapanna understands those qualities to the point that he/she would have avecca pasāda in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.
– Such a person would SEE (passati) that there is no other refuge than the refuge of Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.
– But there is much more to REALIZE BY EXPERIENCE (i.e. to attain the paccavekkhana-ñana). That is reached at the Arahant stage.Hello Ramsden!
Yes. Ther are many interpretations of Pali words. Each person needs to decide which ones make sense. I have explained as I (and Waharaka Thero) have understood them.
The only other thing I can say is the following.
Uddacca-kukkucca is one of five hindrances (panca nivarana) that COVERS the mind and hinders the mind from understanding deeper Dhamma.
– That “covering of the mind” is mainly due to the three immoral roots, lobha, dosa, moha.All five of the five hindrances have roots in lobha, dosa, and moha in varying degrees and combinations.
P.S. Uddacca and kukkucca are TWO different mental factors (cetasika). Those are different from uddacca-kukkucca, one of the panca nivarana. It is specifically due to uddacca LEADING to kukkucca.
– Kukkucca is removed (together with the uddacca-kukkucca nivarana) at the Sotapanna stage.
– A reduced form of uddacca (a sense of self-importance) remains even after the Anagami stage and is removed only at the Arahant stage.Regarding Lvalio’s comment above, “bodhisattvas follow holy life under the Buddhas, purify virtue, learn buddha’s teachings, practice meditative life, and develop insight to proper knowledge(anulomañana). But they make no effort to reach the supermundane ways and their fruits.”
That is not quite correct.
– It is not that they do not make any effort. Unless he is told by a Buddha in a given lifetime, he would not even know that he is a Bodhisatta. Note that even though he met 28 Buddhas, and got “niyata vivarana” from them, there were many many eons that passed during that time.
– They do make their best effort. However, once he gets “niyata vivarana” there is NO POSSIBILITY for the Bodhisatta to comprehend the Four Noble Truths (i.e., Tilakkhana) by learning them from someone else.
– All he will be doing from the point of getting “niyata vivarana” is to complete any unfulfilled tasks on the way to the Buddhahood.One of the key points many people do not understand is “niyata vivarana“.
– I will explain that in detail at some point. But the following is the key idea.
– We all have our future “mapped out” at any point in time. However, that map KEEPS CHANGING all the time, based on our actions. For example, if one commits a bad deed, that map will change in a “bad way”.
– But once the Bodhisatta completes most of the paramita (tasks) required for the Buddhahood, the map DOES NOT change, at least not significantly. For example, going back to 28 Buddhas who gave “niyata vivarana“, they all saw that our Bodhisatta WILL attain the Buddhahood.I am going to write the following just to try one more time to make my point clear. I do not wish to engage in endless debates that have no endings. Hopefully, the following will help clarify the point for at least some people. Another relevant point is that some concepts become clear ONLY AFTER relevant background material is absorbed. So, I don’t want to discourage anyone either (see my comments and the suggested posts at the end).
lkoren in his last comment wrote: “My point was simply that if the Buddha as an ascetic had access to the path as expounded by the Buddha Kassapa, then it would have been inevitable that even if he was unable to understand it initially upon looking at his past lives or in any of his past lives.”
Suppose there is a person X living right now. X is very intelligent and has studied physics and quantum mechanics as well.
– Late Dr. Richard Feynman was one of the best physicists ever lived. He stated that no one really understood quantum mechanics. But suppose there is a person Y who does understand. So, in that sense Y is like a Buddha, who FULLY understands quantum mechanics.
– Now Y teaches X all about quantum mechanics. But X is unable to understand it, like most other physicists. X may understand parts of relevant physics, but not the WHOLE picture.Our Bodhisatta (bhikkhu Jotipala) learning Dhamma from Buddha Kassapa can be compared to that. (Bhikkhu Jotipala is X and Buddha Kassapa is Y, in this crude analogy).
– Of course, bhikkhu Jotipala probably understood many concepts. But he was unable to make progress beyond a certain point.
– Here is an EXTRA issue that comes into play. Bhikkhu Jotipala is INHERENTLY incapable of learning the whole truth from ANY other person, including another Buddha. That is a part of the “paramita“. Let me discuss that in a bit more detail.A Bodhisatta’s wish is to save a large number of people from the suffering in the rebirth process. By DEFINITION, that means he wants to attain the Buddhahood when pure Buddha Dhamma is NOT available in the world. Then that Bodhisatta HAS TO comprehend everything by himself.
– Previous Buddhas had already confirmed that bhikkhu Jotipala was going to be a Buddha. Thus, his mind WOULD NOT grasp the deep Dhamma from Buddha Kassapa. When Buddha Kassapa looked into why bhikkhu Jotipala could not make progress, he also saw that bhikku Jotipala was destined to be a Buddha.
– Ascetic Siddhatta MAY HAVE had the ability to recall his previous life. I am not sure whether that is a fact (i.e., it is in the Tipitaka). Even if he did, that would not help him to make the BREAKTHROUGH.
– Ascetic Siddhatta would be in the same position that bhikkhu Jotipala was at the time of Buddha Kassapa. In our analogy, they both are like X. Mere description provided by Y was not enough to gain the insight needed for X.Now, getting to the Buddhahood is, of course, much harder than comprehending quantum mechanics. But I hope one can get the idea.
Regarding the comments that I made at the beginning of this post, the following sections could be helpful:
“Buddhahood Associated Controversies”
“Buddha Dhamma – A Scientific Approach”It takes a real effort to see the “whole picture” and that takes time. It is a step-by-step process. There is no point in overly analyzing “what if” scenarios in some cases. Things will automatically become clear as one proceeds.
– Of course, there is a balance, since one does not want to blindly believe things either. That is why I started writing the above two sections.OK. That is it.
– Everyone is entitled to their opinions. If you are happy with yours, that is fine.I am glad to hear that we are making progress, ikoren.
Let us look at your main issue from your latest post:
“Lal said
“A Bodhisatta is supposed to comprehend the way to Nibbana by himself.”This is the exact aspect I have been pointing to. If the bodhisatta can remember the true dhamma from his previous lives. He is not comprehending the way to nibanna by himself anymore than the arahant does upon instruction..”
Let us take the specific case of our Bodhisatta who had cultivated anariya jhana (with instructions from Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta) and had the ability to recall his interactions with Buddha Kassapa.
– Recalling a past life means exactly recalling his OWN experiences. He was not recalling what Buddha Kassapa said, but what he heard.
– There is a BIG difference between those two.
– If bhikkhu Jotipala was unable to comprehend what Buddha Kassapa was saying at that time, as ascetic Siddhatta he would have just recalled the same things.You may want to read my next post this weekend. It is on this subject of recalling past events. There are few people being studied by scientists. Those people have “perfect memories” without cultivating jhana (It is due to punna iddhi, a type of kamma vipaka). They can recall and re-live any arbitrary day in the past several years.
– They don’t have higher intelligence compared to an average person. They just can recall past events even moment-by-moment as if playing back a recorder. They experience the same feelings as if they are experiencing that event right now.The bottom line is that ascetic Siddhatta was not able to gain any NEW knowledge by recalling his interactions with Buddha Kassapa. If he was unable to make progress with what he heard then, he would not be able to make progress by recalling the same things.
Think about a person living now, who has been taught the correct Dhamma now. Suppose he is unable to comprehend it and make progress. He dies and is reborn a few years later again a human. Suppose he cultivates jhana and is able to recall what he learned in the past life.
– There is no difference between that and him again learning the same stuff from another teacher.
– Even in that latter life, he may or may not be able to make progress, using either approach (recalling or learning from a new teacher.)
– It is not the words that matter. That is the bottom line. Learning (memorizing) and comprehension are two different things.I have a hard time trying to understand what you are saying in the following (which seems to be a big issue for you): “The problem is the same one I outlined above, if the buddha preceding his awakening had gained the ability to see his past lives, which the Tipitaka claims he had, even in a mundane sense, he would have had the ability to remember learning the dhamma underneath the Buddha Kassapa and could have used that to gain awakening for himself. This would undermine the spirit of suttas depicting the Buddha being without a teacher and the idea that he needed to cultivate the paramitas over aeons in order to be able to reach this enlightenment without aid..”
Ascetic Siddhatta (before becoming the Buddha) probably had attained the ability to see his past lives. He has cultivated anariya jhana which he learned from Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta.
– So, he probably saw that he was a bhikkhu under Buddha Kassapa.
– How does that change anything?A Bodhisatta is supposed to comprehend the way to Nibbana by himself. Even if Buddha Kassapa spent months and months instructing him, he would not have been able to “learn the way” from Buddha Kassapa.
– In fact, I remember Waharaka Thero mention the following in a discourse. It seems that after becoming a bhikkhu under Buddha Kassapa, bhikkhu Jotipala (our Bodhisatta at that time) tried hard to make progress, but could not. He told Buddha Kassapa that he is unable to make progress. That is when Buddha Kassapa looked into it and realized that Bhikkhu Jotipala is going to attain the Buddhahood.
– Before that 27 other Buddhas had also confirmed (gave niyata vivarana) that our Bodhisatta was going to become a Buddha.
– Many people think that a Bodhisatta knows at any time that he is going to become a Buddha. That is not so. Until Buddha Kassapa told him about it, he probably had no idea. Remember that in the Ghatikara Sutta, Jotipala even did not want to meet Buddha Kassapa at first.We need to settle this issue first.
Please read the following post too regarding this issue:
“Pāramitā and Niyata Vivarana – Myths or Realities?”As I stated in my first reply, attaining anariya jhana (or recalling past lives) is NOT a big deal. It does not guarantee any magga phala let alone a Buddhahood.
– Even any animal living today would have been a Brahma many times over in the past. That means it would have attained jhanas many times over in its previous lives.
– Rebirth process has no discernible beginning. We all (meaning ALL living beings, not just humans) have been born in good and bad realms many times over.
– This is why I am saying that one cannot think about these in simple terms.I am not sure whether you read the previous posts that I suggested. I suggest certain posts because I don’t want to write the same stuff over and over.
Sorry. I do not have time to get into discussions about these strange analyses by bhikkhus Sujato, Brahmali, and Analayo about EBTs (Early Buddhist Texts).
First of all, EBT is incorrect terminology.
– What are “New Buddhist Texts” (NBT)?
– If there are NBTs whose teachings are they?
– Are there any “new teachings” that appeared after the Buddha? If so, they would not be Buddha Dhamma!There is ONLY ONE EBT. That is the Tipitaka, the Pali Canon.
– Now, there are Chinese Agama texts (translation of the Tipitaka in Chinese). It seems to me that it would be fine IF the translation to Chinese is correct. I don’t know Chinese, so I cannot comment on that.On pp. 9-10 of the text by Bhikkhus Sujato and Brahmali that you quoted, they provide definitions for EBTs and non-EBTs.
Their definitions are INCORRECT.
1. The ONLY EBT is the Tipitaka. It has Sutta Piṭaka, Vinaya Piṭaka, and the Abhidhamma Piṭaka.
– In their definition, they only include the Sutta Piṭaka as EBT.
– Even worse, they include all sorts of OLD TEXTS in Tibetan, Chinese, and Indian (Sanskrit) as EBT. Those are DERIVED from the original Pali Canon. In addition, most Sanskrit texts were “made-up”. See, “Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (Lotus Sutra) – A Focused Analysis”2. They list Abhidhamma as non-EBT. I guess that is because it was finalized at the Third Council. But as I explained in my previous comment, it took a long time to finalize the Abhidhamma Piṭaka. But it is quite clear (due to self-consistency) that Abhidhamma is part of Buddha’s teachings. Abhidhamma is self-consistent within and also with the other two Piṭaka.
That is why I do not want to continue this discussion. There is a basic flaw at the root. Such discussions do not lend to learning Buddha Dhamma. They may be good topics for philosophical discussions, but I am not interested in such discussions.
If you have questions about Bodhisatta concept, please ask a question without quoting those texts.
– What is wrong with the Bodhisatta concept? A Bodhisatta is someone who is striving to attain the Buddhahood over many, many lives.
– Yes. There were many Buddhas in the past. What is wrong with that?Hello, lkoren!
“I have recently taken a heavy interest in understanding what suttas of the Pali Canon can be reliably, and generally understood to be attributed to the buddha and what are later additions.”
– It is good to do that.
– I have found that the Tipitaka (Pali Canon) is 100% self-consistent and can be reliably attributed to the Buddha.
– Finding that self-consistency is the key. What hinders that, is the incorrect translation of the Tipitaka by many.Yes. What you say about Abhidhamma is correct. Buddha only explained the Abhidhamma material to Ven. Sariputta in summary form. It took several generations of bhikkhus to expand it to the form that we have today. Again, self-consistency is the way to judge.
1. “…According to the Ghatikara Sutta, he had ordained and learned all of the buddha Kassapa’s teachings and had practiced insight meditation right up to stream-entry.”
– The error here is indicated in bold. A Bodhisatta, by definition, would not attain stream-entry (Sotapanna stage). He would attain ALL magga phala with the Buddhahood.
2. Correct. One could cultivate mundane jhana and get to “see” previous lives. In fact, we all have done that in our previous lives, many times over.
3. Yes. That is consistent with #2.
The bottom line is that attaining jhana has NOTHING to do with attaining magga phala and making progress towards Nibbana. Of course, attaining even anariya jhana CAN HELP. But that can happen ONLY IF one is taught the correct Dhamma, including correct explanations of Tilakkhana, Paticca Samuppada, etc.
That should explain everything else. If there are further questions, please feel free to ask.
As for who believes in rebirth and not, is up to that person.
– But one thing is very clear. Buddha Dhamma is all about stopping the suffering-filled rebirth process.
– Thus, if one does not believe in the rebirth process, that means he/she has a long way to go, even to get started. See, “Buddhism without Rebirth and Nibbāna?”Regarding self-consistency: “Buddha Dhamma: Non-Perceivability and Self-Consistency”
P.S. If there are any questions about the above two posts, or on any post at the website, please refer to the post and the relevant bullet #. That would make it easier to discuss.
Hello Zapper,
Yes. My niramisa sukha has built up over the years.
– It is not anything deep or mysterious.Amisa sukha, the opposite of niramisa sukha, is the “happiness” one feels when engaged in sensory pleasures. For example, eating a delicious meal, the joyous feeling when buying a new house, or getting a promotion at work.
Those “pleasures” are temporary. Furthermore, they lead directly or indirectly to suffering ranging from just discomfort to real suffering.
On the other hand, niramisa sukha is the relief one gets when one starts seeing those bad consequences of amisa sukha.
– Fewer burdens lead to less agitation of the mind.
– Less agitation of the mind means easier to grasp deeper Dhamma, which in turn leads to less mental agitation.
So, it is a positive loop that leads to accelerated progress.
