Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Saṅkhata are expected in particular way. One does saṅkhāra dukkha to maintain saṅkhata.
Internal Rūpa are expected in certain way. One does saṅkhāra dukkha to maintain senses.
Eventually one of them, either senses or saṅkhata will fail.
Either one of this dominoes must fall. Any of them cannot be maintained as per one’s liking, as long as one wants.In some realms senses can be maintained but not saṅkhata.
In some realms, saṅkhata can be maintained but not senses.
And finally most of births are in realm, where neither senses are to liking and neither saṅkhata are to liking.
Would you want to embrace such conditional temporary limited happiness?
Or should you change the approach to your own long term happiness?
Another way to look at it, is that niccā state and Aniccā state are mutually exclusive to each other.
One cannot have niccā state by staying in this world of 31 realms, by being born anywhere. Only when one is not born one would have niccā state, e.g. one has nibbanā, that is only true complete niccā state.
However, as long as one craves the objects with Aniccā nature one will born somewhere in 31 realm, and think about it how can someone who craves for objects with Aniccā nature would ever have true happiness/sukha/niccā/atta in this world? By having PañcaUpādānaKhandha one would only have suffering and suffering alone.
(Tanha → upādāna → bhava → jati → origin of whole mass of suffering.)
AND craving for any object from our own pañcakKhanda would be futile. Because our pañcakKhanda can never have any object with niccā state. Reason being nibbanā is something not experienced by six senses, hence there is no record/pañcakKhanda of its experience in our memory records.
Our pañcakKhanda only has objects with Aniccā nature, so craving for any of that is meaningless, because one would not only not have any happiness due to PañcaUpādānaKhandha but one would have much more dukkha in form of saṅkhāra, viparinama, dukkhā dukkhā as long as one has PañcaUpādānaKhandha. Without removal of PañcaUpādānaKhandha suffering cannot be ever stopped.
An extremely important example of Buddhist mind based approach to fix problem of suffering rather than trying to fix world.
How is not world but attachment is fixable?
And how just with ending of tanha, suffering automatically stops?Let’s see this with example.
You have countless times heard that he who wins himself is true winner, but why? And more importantly, how? *And what is meaning of one who wins himself?*
A very important example about what entails winning in world in true sense – A Buddhist perspective.
Let’s say that there are two persons X and Y who are soon going to meet third person Z.
X has hatred towards bad speech of others. We all have dislike for that. Noone likes to hear the harsh words even from their parents, let alone anyone else.
However, Y has no such attachments or preferences. Because he understands that whatever comes through senses is not under our control and not to complete liking, whatever type of liking that might be. Hence, he accepts whatever that comes up through senses without any hatred or greed or any kind of attachments. Because he knows that attachment to pleasent words with greed and attachment to unpleasant words with hatred is of no use.
Now, X and Y goes to meet Z. Z yells at both X and Y, insults them, gives them harsh words, unpleasant speech.
However X suffers and Y does not suffer in this situation.
Why understanding this is extremely important?
Because, this situation illustrates how it is not the things in world but, our expectations/preference/greed/hatred which creates the suffering.
Now, just because X doesn’t have any preference for any particular type of treatment, does that mean he will generate the love/pleasent feeling even when someone insults him/her?
No. This is important to understand, you don’t have to give up on doing anything at all. Just don’t have attachment/expectations for anything coming through six senses. You will still be fully functional, after removing all the attachments.
Only thing given up by giving up attachment/preference/hate/greed is suffering/pain.
Important thing here to understand is that just because X has that kind of preference, it doesn’t mean that, people will stop telling him unpleasant unliked harsh words, however, because of his attachment to hear only nice words, now when he hears unliked words he will generate the hatred and hated is cause for suffering.
On the other hand when Y hears the same unpleasant words he has not hatred because he has no attachment/greed to particular type of speech and words, he doesn’t expect ears to *COMPLETE LIKING* hence, he doesn’t generate any hatred due to not having any greed.
Whether or not you have any kind of expectations/liking/greed/hatred has not impact on any worldly object or six senses, they will work on causality. They don’t work as per one’s wishes.
One’s greed/hatred/attachment/preference doesn’t enhance the working of anything, attachment serves no purpose other than giving pain and suffering. while their presence gives much suffering.
This is why one should work of oneself rather than world for achieving true happiness.
This example illustrates how it is not worldly conditionality that creates suffering but our attachment to it that is problem.
But, throughout our long Samsarā it has become our tendency/instinct and first response to fix world and to make it to our liking rather than fixing ourselves to not expect something from world which it can never provide.
When you try to fix world rather then yourself, you suffer. Because, you cannot bent ganga river as you like.
When you try to fix attachment, it is possible to stop Suffering and to have something that is to our *complete liking*
First is wrong approach, giving unpleasant unliked result. Something that all of us have done for so long.
Second approach is Buddhist approach, in which you fix false expectations rather then fixing world. This leads to permanent end of suffering.
If suffering is ended permanently, is it true winning or not?
One who ends suffering by fixing his mind, is he true winner or no?
With the happiness through six senses, question is not whether suffering will arise or not.
Question is when suffering arises.
For poor people in human realm, suffering is ever present reality.
For rich people in human realm, even with all their riches they cannot completely stop what they don’t like, they cannot completely get what they like. Money cannot keep senses young, cannot stop all the illnesses, cannot stop someone from telling you harsh words.
Even if one has all the wealth in the world, can it help one to have birth in next life exactly as one likes?
So, one must understand clearly, buddha doesn’t talk about the mundane suffering or pain of everyday life.
The suffering buddha talks about is ever present reality/sansarā/six senses/”the all”/”the world” it is inherently not to complete liking or as per one’s wishes.
World works on principle of causality, we want to embrace it in illusion that it is works as per our wishes.
If it worked as per your wishes, would you ever let anything happen, that you don’t like or that causes Suffering?
But, you suffer and have pain, grief, lamentation, despair, sorrow, seperation from liked, not meeting or having liked etc etc.
So, is the six senses/world a real problem that you should fix? Or should you fix your attachment (greed/hatred) to world?
As mentioned earlier, all our friends, family, relatives all have tried their ever best to fix the world, *yet, world is unfixable problem.*
However, this is not giving up in any sense or accepting defeat. It is just that why would you fight battle that cannot be ever won?
Remeber, it is not about giving this up or that up or anything, It is about trying to choose the battle that has possibility of winning.* Why would you fight battle that is impossible to win? Why would you try to have happiness from something which is incapable of providing it?
What is winning in this question?
*Winning is simply that you remove all possibilities of ever having any kind of suffering ever again. Is anything more valuable. Never ever having any Suffering.*
I explained in above posts why world is not fixable, but, attachment is fixable.
This is the reason, why repeated endless attempts to have happiness in “this world” *ALWAYS FAILS*.
Why it fails?
Because one expects to not experience pain after touching hot pan.
Is that fair expectation?
Is it possible to not experience suffering after touching hot pan?
Is one fool or wise to expect no pain after touching the hot pan?
On the other hand, even if pan is there, if you don’t touch it,
Does it create the pain?
I pondered on lal’s analogy of fish, hook and bait and got breakthrough.
This are notes from that breakthrough;
This is expansion on that analogy;
×-×-×-×-×-×
Is it wise for fish to embrace the worm tied to hook in pond by someone trying to caught fish?
If fish were to do it,
will it have more sukha or dukha as final result?Is small temporary happiness fish had after eating that worm, was worth its life?
But, if the fish chooses to embrace the worm, in hopes of whatever little shred of happiness it can have by eating the worm, is that action wise or unwise?
Doing unwise leads to pleasent or unpleasant results in long term?
If fish knew that in having one single time small meal it will be caught in much suffering?
Would it embrace the worm?
Ofcourse not.
Why?
Becaus it will get caught and die.
….
Humans too act like fish.
What is “worm” for humans?
(Worm = trap/bait in this analogy)Pleasent sights, smells, touches, sounds and taste.
One either has greed or hatred for this five kinds of objects. When it is pleasent object there is greed to keep it, maintain it, embrace it, trying to have more of it. When event, person or any other cause blocks happiness dependent upon that object, one generates hatred for that cause, which blocks one from having the much desired pleasent experience.
This goes much deeper through, it is not just pleasent nature of objects, happiness is even dependent on personal preference too. Different people have different kinds of personal preferences, this preference is subtle greed for having things in particular way. WHEN this personal preferences are not fulfilled, they again do what?
There is Generating of dislike, friction or even hatred, depending upon how strong the happiness of that person was dependent on greed/personal-preference being fulfilled.
Now, what is “hook” for humans?
Just like fish is caught on hook in eating worm.
Humans too get *caught in sansarā* while trying to eat worm.
Why sansarā is hook?
Did any of your suffering arise in any other way then through six senses?Why sansarā is hook,
Because not matter what, it is not possible to have happiness without suffering.
As long as one want to eat delightful sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch using senses.
Write this down, the much unwanted future suffering cannot be stopped. Even if one had everything one cannot stop illness, old age and death. One cannot stop becoming monkey or insect based upon one’s own kamma despite everything. If the causes are there, effects will follows inevitably.
So, even through all sorts of pleasent things are present in world, they bring much more suffering then pleasure, happiness.
Is 100 years of even kingly pleasure of any value if you were to become monkey or insect after this birth?
One thinks this is impossible,
Because, of too much attachment to body. One thinks body is mine, I am body etc. Because one fails to see the causes for birth of body.If parents were not United, if mother was not in her time, if you didn’t had kamma bija for human Bhavā, if you didn’t had food at any time in your life for long time, would you still be here?
It is all just causality at the core.
Are six senses ever completely fulfilled?
It is impossible, because, whatever temporary fulfilment one has, comes through contact of senses with corresponding external senses objects. *It arises based on conditionality, with cessation of causes, whole experience ceases.*
One cannot constantly maintain any conditionality to keep senses fulfilled.
Senses are by their very nature are insatiable. It is not your fault that they are unfulfilled. They have inherent nature of suffering and vexation.
Trying to keep senses happy or fulfilled by providing them various pleasent objects is foolish.
One is trying to do impossible.
Six senses are not not be relied upon to have any happiness.
Now, we see that six senses are unfulfilled always and they are always unbalanced and insatiable and always gives suffering.
Both senses and external sense objects are completely Aniccā, dukkhā and anatta. They are utterly useless for achieving any kind of permanent happiness.
One who tries to achieve the happiness through six senses is fool. He will always be unhappy eventually.
One should get rid of all passions based on either senses or six corresponding sense objects.
So, with cessation of this senses would all suffering cease or no?
Without birth can senses come? So, with stopping of birth, do senses arises or no?
So, with cessation of birth, with cessation of senses, would suffering to end or no?But, when what exists birth exists?
Without avijjā/ignorance,
Birth cannot come!What is Avijjā/ignorance?
It is only when delusion exists that either this senses or the objects out in the world can provide *PERMANENT HAPPINESS* that you run behind them with passion, hate, greed etc.
Now, with cessation of this avijjā/ignorance abhisaṅkhāra ceases, defiled viññana cease, salayatana ceases, samphassa ceases, samphassa-jā-vēdanā ceases, tanha ceases, bhava ceases and with cessation 9f bhava comes cessation of jati, with cessation of jati comes cessation of birth, with cessation of birth, comes stopping of all suffering.
Cessation of all suffering is that not a true happiness, all of us seek?
Faculty Of “I will know the unknown” means having Chanda for nibbanā and trying to have asavakhaya nana, right?
Upon searching on internet,
This is what I have found.
When the Stream-entry path is reached, a new, supramundane faculty, the I-shall-come-to-know-the-unknown faculty (anaññātaññassāmītindriya) appears, to be subsequently followed by the new and supramundane final-knowledge and final-knower faculties (aññindriya, aññātāvindriya). These are gained in this life with the attainment of Arahantship.
Source: https://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh052_Nyanamoli_Pathways-Of-Buddhist-Thought–Four-Essays.html
I think SengKiat mentioned 22 kinds of faculties in reply to one of my post And the faculty “I will know the unknown” is found in sottapana.
Can you verify this, lal?
Lal, I am afraid that there are too many details in Paṭicca Samuppāda, I don’t understand how much details are necessary to understand.
Can you point out what section of website about Paṭicca Samuppāda is required at minimum, and sufficient if one were to contemplate on that section.
I now understand all four noble truths and Aniccā based on Paṭicca Samuppāda in context of 31 realms. (Not fully ofcourse)
However, My understanding in Paṭicca Samuppāda is still at very basic level.
And what I understand regardless is that we cannot keep any saṅkhata without its adīnava. If we choose to be passionate and embrace the saṅkhata with dukkhā nature, then dukkha will come to our way, this is true Aniccā, inability to keep Liked state of any saṅkhata without viparinama This dukkha is inevitable future suffering connected with each saṅkhata. I have good understanding of this.
One more question, The ashobhana Cetasika that is removed at Arhant stage, what exactly one knows that removes this whole cetasika from arising ever again?
I would like to guess that it is understanding of four noble truths at very deep level or maybe it is samma Ñāna Which is asavakhaya nana, if I am not wrong.
If so, what is nature of this asavakhaya nana?Lal, wrote that,
“uddhacca kukkucca” is one of the five nivarana that “covers a mind” and prevents “seeing the true nature of the world.”
This is worth pondering over.
I know this was not asked, but, I realised this recently and I think this observation will be useful for everyone.
I used to have cycles of high mindedness and low mindedness which prevented me from realising the dhamma for long time.
Why? you would think.
It is because let’s say that one has,
Low mindedness → one feels lowly/meek → so one think that world is not actually Bad place it is only one’s bad birth/fate/luck etc. Which is responsible for one’s suffering. So, world is actually niccā according to one.
High mindedness → one thinks one is special in some way → consequently one think it is only the *OTHER* worldly people who will suffer various suffering. One is somehow immune from suffering of the world, which means for the individual with high mindedness, world is niccā. Because one won’t suffer in it due to one’s inherent specialness.
——
In conclusion,
Those with low mindedness, should ponder over the sufferings of even rich kings, actors or any powerful individual. Are they immune from suffering caused by old age, death, illness, or meeting unliked or not meeting liked?
Those with high mindedness, should ponder over the suffering that was faced by even supremely enlightened mighty samma Sam buddha. Buddha received verbal curse, he was wrongly blamed, he suffered physical ailments, people tried to kill him, despite all the perfections he cultivated in unfathomable long countless eons. Do you think you won’t suffer?
So, this both are wrong views, they are extreme views.
No one is truly meek forever.
(Poor person might become rich in next birth for example.)No one is truly great forever.
(Highest Brahma can be born as monkey.)It is all causality at the heart of Buddhism.
Bhikkhu have/are becoming just like anicient yogis or monks before buddha, they know the drawbacks of sensual pleasures, yet, they attempt wrong escape from this sensual pleasures. They try to escape from it via cultivation of meditation, while it can not provide right escape from suffering.
They can’t get rid of sensual pleasures because they can’t see the tilakkhana. So, they think they have SUPPRESS something they like and which is fruitful. Obviously it is struggle.
One only struggles to give up what is valuable. One wouldn’t struggle to give up worthless.
It is delighting to see that you truly have scientific inclination Lal. Despite knowing so much and having so much knowledge and insights and having helped all of us, you are still truly open to testing what you know.
I recently saw your various replies at dhammawheel waharaka thero thread.
People have tried to spill so much mud on you. Going so far as to make website to defame you. Truly sad to see it.
I think you did well by stopping your replies and posts there.
People questioning all short of fundamentals of what buddha taught. (Which was purely empirical deduction of powerful senses of buddha.)
People not even being open to wider worldview.
As for me I cannot ever put any value on what you are doing for all of us, who are learning buddha dhamma only thanks to you.
To Lal #13199;
You say,
one removes all micca ditthis only when attaining the Arahant stage.
Now, that you have published the very detailed post on vipallāsa, I would assume that this is wrong. Whatever upādāna sottapana has after phala is due to vipallāsa saññā and vipallāsa cittā, but not due to MICCHĀ DIṬṬHI. right?
Lal, Did you ever got any chance to hear any DESANA in person face-to-face with any ariya?
I am afraid that maybe, just may be if recordings won’t work for attainment of phala, I would lost very precious chance to get free from all suffering.
I am not sure if the javana power in ariya voice is also captured in recordings.
In future, I plan to listen to dhamma sermons from ariya in face-to-face setting.
One last question:
You said That one can attain sottapana stage ONLY when listening to ariya discourse.
So, Let’s say the DESANA one is hearing from ariya is not fitting to person’s background, then will they still achieve magga phala?
And can it happen that One can achieve phala quite sometime after pondering over a DESANA one just heard? (So not attaining phala, immediately.)
