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“Q1. Could purana kamma have some minor kammic energy because of existing sangati?”
- Yes. They have kammic energy. But only javana citta can generate strong kammic energy, for example, to fuel future rebirths.
“Q2. If someone who is puthujjana just sees a wall at a given moment, how does that moment’s citta vithi go? Does it fall under one of the two below? Or does neither? (B: Bhavanga citta, K: Kiriya citta)”
- It is (a). AB BC BU PD CV Sam San V B B B B B B B T T
- No kriya citta (without any kammic energy) can arise in a puthujjana; see below.
“Q3. What is the citta vithi only a purana kamma arises? Does it fall under one of the two below? Or does neither?”
- It is neither of those.
- It would be “AB BC BU PD CV Sam San V B B B B B B B BB” since only javana citta can change the mindset even temporarily to T. If no javana citta arise, then the bhavanga remains unchanged.
“Q4. If purana kamma is only related to Avyakata PS, then the citta vithi (a) progresses by only Avyakata PS without Akusala mula PS?”
- By definition, purana kamma is the avyakata PS. Here, “avyakata” means no strong kamma occurs. That part is in any citta vithi, bringing a new sensory input.
- If the mind decides the sense input is of importance, only then an akusala-mula PS runs generating javana citta. Otherwise, the citta vithi would look like the one I stated in answer to Q3.
“Q5. If purana kamma is only related to Avyakata PS, then the citta vithi (b) progresses by only Avyakata PS without Akusala mula PS?”
- Same answer as above.
The next comment, starting with “Let me rearrange what I understand…” conflicts with my answer to Q3.
Finally, regarding the comment starting with: “Lastly, there is a different type of citta vithi unlike above, which can present kusala kamma properly. (Dosakkhayo’s thought)”
- It is correct until the following statement: “In the same way, the lokuttara alobha can be considered as lokuttara raga. Of course, the lokuttara alobha, adosa, and amoha cause kusala kamma.”
- That statement is not correct. Nibbana is reached by nullifying the ability of the previously-made kammic energies to bring vipaka. Thus, a kusala kamma DOES NOT make new kammic energies. A kusala kamma is an action that cultivates wisdom (panna) and breaks samsaric bonds (samyojana) or, equivalently, nullifies all anusaya; that prevents any previously-prepared kammic energy from bringing a new rebirth.
- Also, a javana citta can arise ONLY with lobha, dosa, or moha (or lokiya alobha, adosa, or amoha).
- Another way to say the above: Nibbana is reached via stopping “all preparations” with abhisankhara. Any javana citta rooted in abhisankhara (which starts at the “purana kamma” stage and gains strength at the “nava kamma” stage) can lead to the preparation of something in this world,” i.e., a sankhata. On the other hand, Nibbana is “asankhata,” i.e., “not prepared.”
Thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts.
- It is not easy to explain concepts using any language. It becomes a bit harder with Tipitaka Pali since it is not just about the language, but also about entirely new concepts.
- I have been working on the next post for many days now. Since I am trying to convey the deep concepts in the Mulapariyaya Sutta, I find it extremely challenging, even though I have written several posts trying to provide the necessary background.
- So, what you say is true. But you will get better at it. Take the time, and don’t get stressed!
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Yes. Quite true.
- As we dive deeper into Buddha’s teachings, a solid background becomes necessary. Without a proper background, it will be an exercise of just reciting some words.
- To get an idea of that, please read the English translation of the “Mūlapariyāya Sutta (MN1)” in that link, where the translator substituted each Pali word with an English word. Can anyone understand what the English translation says?
- Many Pali words CANNOT be translated directly into ANY language. We must understand the MEANING of such Pali words and use those Pali words even in English translations.
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Yes. I deliberately avoided discussing “purāna” and “nava” kamma, because that requires a lengthy background.
- We are discussing the required background now. See the comment I just posted (December 4, 2023) in “Formal Meditation.”
- I will provide the necessary suttas as I proceed. If I give the names of the suttas without explaining them, that could lead to confusion because the English translations are wrong.
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Yes. That is good; be mindful all the time!
There is another aspect that will help a lot with reducing cravings.
- We have a “distorted saññā” that worldly things (tasty food, attractive things, and attractive people) have such “mind-pleasing inherent qualities.” But the Buddha taught that it is a “made-up perception” by our minds.
- That understanding will help tremendously with controlling cravings.
- It is a good idea for everyone to read the post, “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā” and the background material for it pointed out in the last bullet below. The subsequent post “Pabhassara Citta and Saññā Vipallāsa” was a continuation of that discussion. These are the only two posts so far in the new section “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).“
- In the next post, I will discuss the “Mūlapariyāya Sutta,” which describes the main reason for this “distorted saññā“ or delusion to arise in our minds. I touched on it in the post “Saññā Vipallāsa – Distorted Perception.”
- To start from the beginning of the discussion, the sequence of posts to be read is in the section “Is There a “Self”?” The first three subsections provide the necessary background. Take notes as you proceed. After that, I started the current series of posts in “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā),” where I will continue the discussion.
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It depends on what you mean by Anapanasati (and what you do there.)
- If you can explain how you engage in Anapanasati, I can comment.
No need to apologize. It was my mistake. I failed to catch it.
- I have revised the last part of #5 of “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa” as follows:
- A kusala kamma cannot be described by a PS process. A kusala kamma is a punna kamma done with the comprehension of Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana. That will eventually help us attain Nibbāna by following the Noble Path. That is also part of Satipaṭṭhāna/Ānapāna. See “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā)” for details.
I thought about this issue of Kusala-mula PS processes. I think the Sutta Pitaka does not discuss such a concept (as I mentioned in my earlier comment) because there is no need. I think it is better to remove the post on “Kusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada” permanently.
- Dosakkhayo’s final comment above: “I was trying to say that Avyakata PS could also have a namarupa.”
- Namarupa formation requires javana citta with raga, dosa, or moha. That happens in javana citta after the votthapana stage in the figure in my comment in the discussion on “Kiriya Citta.”
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Excellent! You got the main ideas/concepts.
- I have reproduced a figure in the post “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa” under #15. It shows a typical thought process (citta vīthi) that is started when eyes capture a “seeing event” (rūpa aramanna or rūpārammana).
1. I need to modify that figure a little. The “two B’s” representing “bhavanga” should be replaced with “bhavanga state.”
- “Bhavanga cittas” (AB, BC, BU) arise when the mind leaves that “bhavanga state,” and cittas start arising in the mind. See “State of Mind in the Absence of Citta Vithi – Bhavaṅga.”
2. What Dosakkhayo called “Neutral kamma” (under (i)) is represented by the part of the citta vithi before the votthapana (V) citta. In the Suttas, these are “purana kamma.” That does not mean “old kamma” as some people translate, but they are “initial kamma” that do not have strong kammic consequences (like rebirth) by themselves.
- What he called “Akusala (or pāpa/apuñña) kamma” (under (ii)) is represented by the part of the citta vithi before the votthapana (V) citta. In the Suttas, these are “nava kamma.” Those are the “new kamma” consciously generated by actions by the mind, speech, and body (mano, vaci, kaya kamma).
- I have not discussed that yet in the new series of posts. They will be discussed in “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).”
- Dosakkhayo’s statement, “#2 The first type of kamma yields results at that time only; they do not lead to “kammic consequences” in the future. Those actions do not have morally good or bad intentions,” is correct. The subsequent statement, “The second/third type can bring “bad/good results” at that time or in the future. Moral or immoral “intentions” that arise lead to the creation of an unseen “kammic energy” that remains in “viññāṇa dhātu” and can bring vipāka in the future” is also correct.
3. What Dosankkhayo stated in (iii), ” A kusala kamma is a puñña kamma done with the comprehension of the Four Noble Truths, i.e., by a Noble Person,” is also correct.
- A kusala kamma cannot be described by a citta vithi as depicted above.
4. Next, his statement, “So the neutral kamma is made by kiriya citta, and apunna or punna kamma is made by javana citta,” is also correct.
- Any action without a trace of raga, dosa, or moha is a neutral kamma.
- Apunna kamma are done with raga, dosa, or moha. A punna kamma is done with lower levels of raga and dosa due to not comprehending the “anicca nature.”
5. Dosakkhayo’s final question: “Can javana citta also make neutral kamma too?”
- No. Javana citta are defined as those arising with raga, dosa, or moha.
- Yes. The mind of a puthujjana (average human) ALWAYS starts at the pañcupādānakkhandha state. But they generate javana citta only after the votthapana stage.
Please feel free to ask questions. These are critical concepts.
P.S. I just revised the post “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa.” It has the revised version of the above figure.
Dosakkhayo’s question from his first post: “So, I think #5 should be revised.”
- Why?
- If it is not clear, the following are key points: (i) Only akusala-mula PS processes generate kammic energy. (ii) Kusala-mula PS processes do not create new kammic energies. They only help remove defilements (i.e., wrong views, perceptions) AND cultivate panna (wisdom or knowledge about how PS processes operate.)
I don’t see a question in the second post. You need to clarify what you are trying to say.
P.S. I just removed the post on “Kusala-Mula Paṭicca Samuppāda” from the “Paticca Samuppada” section. It was an old post and needs to be rewritten.
- When I think about it now, it is unnecessary to even talk about a “kusala-mula” PS. It is not discussed in the Sutta Pitaka. It appears only in the Vibhanga Pakarana.
- The defilements in the mind (per the ten samyojana, seven anusaya, etc.) are removed by cultivating panna (wisdom). That wisdom mainly comes from understanding the worldview of the Buddha.
- That can be done in various ways, but (in my opinion) the best approach is the one we currently discuss in the “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” However, understanding the posts there requires the background discussed in the following sections: “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind,” “Sensory Experience – A Deeper Analysis,” and “Sensory Experience – A Deeper Analysis” sections in that order.
Jorg wrote: “It was through these sermons that I got inspired to start a website that only focuses on sharing Dhamma in plain English. I actually don’t even call it Dhamma directly. I have good reasons for that, but I will share and explain in detail only after I have finished the current section I’m working on.”
- That is an interesting project. Please feel free to post that section (preferably in a new thread) once it is finalized.
I have edited Gad’s post above to remove account information.
- Please refrain from asking for donations on this forum.
- It is a worthy cause to make donations to temples. However, it is not appropriate to make explicit requests providing information with account numbers, etc., on this website. That could lead to unforeseen complications.
- This website is for “Dhamma dāna,” i.e., we try to provide the correct teachings of the Buddha to the best of our capabilities and point to other resources whenever possible.
1. The “saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa” phases of the 10,000- star systems (meaning 10,000 planetary systems like our Solar system) are briefly described in the “Kappa Sutta (AN 4.156).”
- However, the terms “saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa” are wrongly translated in the English translation in the link as “contraction” and “expansion.”
- That does not refer to a “speedy separation” of “star systems or cakkavala.” It refers to the “destruction” and “reformation” of those “star systems.”
2. This is what I described in the post “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” per the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” I have linked to the place in the sutta where the two phases (“saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa“) are discussed.
- Here “saṁvaṭṭa” refers to the phase where the Earth is destroyed together with the Sun and 10,000 other stars that are close by (but the higher-lying Brahma realms survive.)
- In the “vivaṭṭa” phase, the Earth is reformed together with the Sun and close by 10,000 other stars. Then those Brahmas come back to the lower-lying realms gradually, over time.
- That cycle repeats endlessly, according to the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”
3. What the scientists are measuring is not the movement of a cluster of 10,000 star systems but the “expansion of space itself.” However, I believe this is a misconception. They must have made a fundamental error in their assumption.
- According to this model, even galaxies –with millions of cakkavala in EACH galaxy — are moving away from each other at a rapid rate. That seems to make no sense to me.
- This model is currently facing contradictions, especially with the recently launched Webb telescope, as pointed out in the videos above.
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Hello Tobi,
Yes. Buddha Dhamma is deep. But with an effort, one can understand, and it is worth the effort.
I briefly looked at your picture. It seems like a good idea but may need a bit of tuning. I will think about it and will let you know.
Regarding your question: “The question is whether the GANDHABBA can really see and hear when the human body does not trigger. Since Iddhi powers or the right Cittas must first be present or stimulated by Nama Loka/pañcupādānakkhandha.”
- No iddhi power is needed for the gandhabba to see and hear without the physical body.
- During heart operations, some people’s gandhabbas come out of the physical body. They watch the operation from the ceiling and later tell the surgeon precisely what happened during the operation. See “Near-Death Experiences (NDE): Brain Is Not the Mind.”
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Thank you, Gad.
I have started a new thread, “Jethavanarama Buddhist Monastery – English Discourses,” under the “General Forum.”
- Discourses of general interest can be posted there. That way, it will be easier to find them later on.
- If it is a specific topic, one can use a different forum (like Gad did.)
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