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The Pali word for “human” is “manussa.”
- The human realm is one of the 31 realms. It belongs to “kama loka” and lies between the four lowest realms (apayas) and the six Deva realms in the kama loka.
- It is a good idea to have a general understanding of the 31 realms: “31 Realms of Existence.”
Now, all those 31 realms are associated with any planet with life. Of course, modern science has not found any other planets with life outside the Earth. Even on Earth, they know only the human and animal realms.
- We generally use the term “alien” to describe intelligent life outside the Earth. Since scientists believe there can be life on other planets associated with other stars, they have been looking for signs of “alien life” and the possibility of aliens visiting Earth.
- By the way, the main reason scientists have not detected life outside Earth is the following: The nearest star with planets is four light years away. One light year is the distance traveled by light in a year. Look that up, and you will understand that a spaceship (with current technology) will take thousands of years to reach the nearest planet.
According to the Buddha, there are countless planets (cakkavala) with life. Each of those will have the same structure with 31 realms I described above.
- Therefore, if scientists find life outside the Solar system, those “aliens” may not be that different. However, their physical features are likely to be different because the size of the planet can significantly influence that.
What makes us human is our character/habits. For example, animals have very different character/habits and much lower intelligence. But those animals had been human and had cultivated “bad and animal-like character” that led to their birth as animals.
- That is a complex subject, but the basic ideas are in “The Law of Attraction, Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Āsavas),”
“Habits, Goals, and Character (Gati),” and “Saṃsāric Habits and āsavā”.
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Yash: “I have heard if someone has an intention to kill, and he kills, it doesn’t matter if he didn’t know that it was his father, the anantariya kamma would have been committed, as the nature knows everything.”
1. “Nature knows everything” is a colloquial saying, not to be taken literally. No “entity” knows everything (like a God or Creator.)
- The world (nature) runs on a set of rules or laws. In Buddha Dhamma that is Paticca Samuppada. The Buddha did not come up with a set of rules (Paticca Samuppada). Rather, he discovered that Paticca Samuppada describes the rules of nature.
- Whether there is a Buddha in the world or not (some eons or maha kappas do not have a single Buddha) Paticca Samuppada still applies.
2. One aspect of nature’s laws is that everything is interconnected. Scientists are gradually coming to that realization. One aspect of this is “non-locality,” and a recent Nobel prize was awarded to scientists who confirmed this “non-local” nature. I discussed that in the “Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma” section. For example, see #3, #4 of “Quantum Mechanics and Dhamma – Introduction.”
- Specifically, see “Quantum Entanglement – We Are All Connected.” That post is in a different section.
3. With that background in mind, let us look at Yash’s question #1.
- All our actions in this life AND in all previous lives are interconnected with the lives of other sentient beings. Each “lifestream” flows according to Paticca Samuppada and takes into account what has happened up to now.
- That is why it is impossible to sort out kamma vipaka. There are too many factors involved. Thus, “kamma vipaka” is one of the four “inconceivable things” (acinteyya.)
- Suppose X gets separated from his biological parents (Y being the father) at birth. Yet, X and Y remain “connected.” Thus, even if X kills Y after growing up (without having any idea that Y is his father), the following holds: (i) X killed Y, and (ii) Y is X’s father.
- There, the intention was to kill. But with or without knowing “the killed” was the father. Hence it becomes an anantariya kamma.
- It works the other way, too. If X had become a Sotapanna, he would have been unable to kill Y. Nature’s laws (Paticca Samuppada) would have prevented that.
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Yash: “But Ven. Amadassana Thero said that if we give alms to a Bhikku who has lied to be an Arahant, whom we think is an Arahant, we would receive immense merits as in our minds we are giving to an Arahant, but that Bhikku would suffer immensely as he is not an Arahant( he lied intentionally).
In the second case, why doesn’t nature “interfere”?”
2. This one is easier to figure out.
- A bhikkhu who lies about being an Arahant does it with intention. Declaring Arahanthood falsely is done with greed.
- However, a person offering a meal to that bhikkhu, thinking he is an Arahant, has genuine faith (saddha.)
- In both cases, the javana power in one’s cittas (thoughts) is what counts. In the first case, those javanas are defiled greatly by greed. While knowing that the Buddha has taught that such a false declaration is an anantariya kamma, one must have a truly defiled mind to make such a declaration.
- In the second case, the Buddha has mentioned in many suttas that even offering to a bhikkhu who may be corrupt will not deter one’s merits as long as one intends to make the offering to the Sangha who represents the Buddha.
- There is no need to invoke the explanation for the first question here. Nature cannot/does not “interfere” in any situation; “interfere” implies an intention. Nature runs automatically based on Paticca Samuppada.
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Pathfinder: “I have read the posts, and my understanding is that moral conduct and good deeds are required to attain Nibbana. Howver, it still seems that the main reason behind doing good deeds is to work towards Nibbana. Again I raise the example of Ariya Metta Bhāvana. I would think that people do it to progress, or at least start off this habit to progress on the path, more so than relieving all beings of suffering. Hence the intention becomes more of “I want to do good deeds and make my mind suitable for learning dhamma” more so than “I want to rid all beings of suffering” when doing Metta Bhāvana. Why else would people start doing Metta Bhāvana?
- Yes. That is quite correct.
- There are two major steps to Nibbana: (i) One must cultivate “moral conduct” (mundane sila) and also get rid of the ten wrong views. (ii) After that one can start comprehending the Four Noble Truths. The point is without believing in rebirth or the existence of other realms, it is not possible to grasp the deeper concepts like the Four Noble Truths and Paticca Samuppada.
- See “What is Unique in Buddha Dhamma?“
Pathfinder: “Why do Arahants still do good?”
- They do that out of compassion. They have fully understood what suffering is (it is not limited to this life.)
- In fact, it would be better for them to terminate life and end their “remaining suffering arising from the physical body they were born with.” But they don’t do that out of compassion. They want to help others as much as they can, as long as they live.
- There were a couple of Arahants who had unbearable bodily suffering (due to illnesses). They got permission from the Buddha to commit suicide. There was no point in them bearing that suffering since they could not help anyone.
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Yes. Yash’s explanation is correct.
The following posts could also be helpful:
Please feel free to ask questions.
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Yes. Yash’s explanation is correct.
The following are three posts related to providing answers to similar questions.
- Is It Necessary for a Buddhist to Eliminate Sensual Desires?
- Sila, Samadhi, Panna to Panna, Sila, Samadhi
- Six Root Causes – Loka Samudaya (Arising of Suffering) and Loka Nirodhaya (Nibbāna)
Please feel free to ask questions.
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This is a deeper issue, as I pointed out in my earlier on May 14, 2024 at 8:33 pm (post # 49756). The following is what I stated there:
1. Here is another translation with the Pali: “Oghataraṇa Sutta (SN 1.1).”
- This short sutta has deep meanings regarding how a puthujjana is kept away from Nibbana. In many suttas, attaining Nibbana is compared to crossing an ocean/river/flood and going from this shore (this world) to the further shore (Nibbana.)
- A puthujjana attaches to a sensory input in two stages, explained as upaya/upadana or, equivalently, “purana kamma“/”nava kamma” stages. For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- One who lands in the stream (flood) sinks to the bottom; if he grasps a floating object, he will be swept away by the stream (flood).
- The Deva asked, “How did you cross the flood”? and the Buddha answered, “By neither landing nor grasping to something (that was floating), I crossed the flood.”
- The two stages are discussed in the posts “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment” and “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation“
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You are referring to the main point of “For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- This needs to be done in two stages: First, one stops grasping arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage. In particular, one stops doing immoral deeds. That happens at the Sotapanna stage. Then, one starts working on the second step, trying to comprehend the deeper aspects of the Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada.
- That second step is to avoid “landing (patiṭṭha) in kama bhava” and attain the Anagami stage.
When one is free of the rebirths in the kama loka, then that process needs to be repeated to get released from the rupa loka and arupa loka. P.S. That can happen after the Anagami stage.
- Therefore, first focus on attaining the Sotapanna stage by getting rid of sakkaya ditthi, i.e., realizing the unfruitfulness/dangers of attaching to things in this world.
- As I mentioned many times, understanding “distorted sanna” helps in all those steps, but that approach may be too difficult for those who do not have enough background. For example, one could start with the “Paṭicca Samuppāda” section. You can review the subsections and pick which subsections/posts are suitable.
- The key to making progress is to start at a point where one understands most of a post but gets stuck in some issues. At that point, one should quote that post and ask questions to get those issues resolved. It is pointless to start at an advanced post or section.
I don’t think most people have spent enough time seriously contemplating the series of posts I mentioned in my reply to Tobias in my later comment.
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The following is that exchange:
Tobias: “What means “landing” in relation to kama dhatu, kama sanna, kama sankappa…? I guess it is the purana kamma stage.”
- That is correct.
Tobias: “But how can the Bodhisatta avoid kama dhatu (with kama sanna)? “
- He could not/did not avoid it. As we discussed, even the Buddha or an Arahant also experiences the kama sanna (e.g., sweetness of sugar). Anyone born with a human body would automatically get the kama sanna because it comes with the “uppatti bhavanga.”
- So, they all go through the kama dhatu and kama sanna stages, but NOT to the kama sankappa stage.
- The Buddha or an Arahant would still be in the kama dhatu but NOT in kama bhava. The Bodhisatta was in kama bhava, but he overcame it during the Enlightenment.
- That is explained in “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind“. After that, we discussed purana kamma and nava kamma. See the sequence of posts in “Is There a “Self”?” Then we moved to the “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” section.
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Note: Please avoid using bright red to highlight sentences. That color is hard on the eyes!
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Yes. The central theme is correct.
- We can also think of it as follows, starting with an arammana (sensory input): We attach ( with tanha) to the arammana , expecting it to provide more happiness. That attachment culminates in upadana (pulling it close our mind with stronger attachment or “tanha paccaya upadana“), and we generate abhisankhara (kammic energy) by acting with avijja (“avijja paccaya sankhara.”)
- That kammic energy brings future rebirths.
- That is how the whole process goes on and on forever.
2(b) above in not correct.
- Engaging in punna kamma is essential to make the possibility of future rebirths in “good realms” and to avoid rebirths in apayas. See, for example, “Sumana Sutta (AN 5.31).”
- Also see #6 of “Rebirths Take Place According to Abhisaṅkhāra.”
- However, one must realize that engaging in punna kamma, by itself, is not enough to stop future suffering. One must convert punna kamma to kusala kamma by comprehending 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana.
Yes. I agree that taryal’s comments were reasonable from his perspective. Anyone without exposure to Buddha’s teachings would not know differently.
- But I have gone through many discussions like this where people kept bringing up point after point based on the “wrong assumptions” about the fundamental nature of this world (mostly scientists tend to do that; I have given up such discussions with a few of my dear friends.) If I did not “get to the point” such discussions can take a lot of time, and that is a waste of time. If someone is unwilling to look at the “previously unheard axioms” about this world (for example, Darwin’s theory of evolution is wrong), then there is no point in further discussions. One should be open to that idea and then go through the explanations BASED ON THEM to see whether they lead to logical conclusions. That takes a lot of time and patience.
- P.S. The “Origin of Life” section is an introduction to that subject. It discusses why the assumptions of Darwin’s theory of evolution do not make sense in the broader worldview that takes into account the rebirth process and the existence of other realms that we cannot directly see. By the way, the Buddha personally visited all those realms, so this is not a mere philosophical theory. Anyone who can cultivate abhinna powers can do that.
- P.P.S. There are other sections on the website on this subject. For example, see “Buddha Dhamma – A Scientific Approach” and “Dhamma and Science.”
- I hope Taryal will read the posts I recommended. I would be more than happy to clear up any questions he (or anyone else) may have regarding any of those posts. Please refer to any post and ask questions.
gopinadh: Not quite.
- A puñña kamma is a meritorious/good action that CAN lead to rebirth in the higher realms. See “Rebirths Take Place According to Abhisaṅkhāra”
- Engaging in kusala kamma leads to Nibbāna.
- The difference is understanding the fruitlessness/dangers of remaining in the rebirth process, i.e., getting rid of sakkaya ditthi.
- In the same way, there is a difference between mundane metta, karuna, muduta, upekkha (bhavana), and the Noble versions of them after getting rid of sakkaya ditthi.
See “Kilesa – Relationship to Akusala, Kusala, and Puñña Kamma.”
Tobias: “What means “landing” in relation to kama dhatu, kama sanna, kama sankappa…? I guess it is the purana kamma stage.”
- That is correct.
Tobias: “But how can the Bodhisatta avoid kama dhatu (with kama sanna)? “
- He could not/did not avoid it. As we discussed, even the Buddha or an Arahant also experiences the kama sanna (e.g., sweetness of sugar). Anyone born with a human body would automatically get the kama sanna because it comes with the “uppatti bhavanga.”
- So, they all go through the kama dhatu and kama sanna stages, but NOT to the kama sankappa stage.
- The Buddha or an Arahant would still be in the kama dhatu but NOT in kama bhava. The Bodhisatta was in kama bhava, but he overcame it during the Enlightenment.
- That is explained in “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind“. After that, we discussed purana kamma and nava kamma. See the sequence of posts in “Is There a “Self”?” Then we moved to the “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” section.
- Maybe I should list all those in the new “Buddha Dhamma – Advanced” section so that we have the whole sequence of posts in one place.
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1. Here is another translation with the Pali: “Oghataraṇa Sutta (SN 1.1).”
- This short sutta has deep meanings regarding how a puthujjana is kept away from Nibbana. In many suttas, attaining Nibbana is compared to crossing an ocean/river/flood and going from this shore (this world) to the further shore (Nibbana.)
- A puthujjana attaches to a sensory input in two stages, explained as upaya/upadana or, equivalently, “purana kamma“/”nava kamma” stages. For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- One who lands in the stream (flood) sinks to the bottom; if he grasps a floating object, he will be swept away by the stream (flood).
- The Deva asked, “How did you cross the flood”? and the Buddha answered, “By neither landing nor grasping to something (that was floating), I crossed the flood.”
- The two stages are discussed in the posts “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment” and “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation“
2. I don’t understand the second question.
Your statement, “..Mundane Sila becoming Ariyakanta Sila, when one understands Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada is an example of such qualitative transformation/change/shift” explains everything.
- Mundane Sila becomes Ariyakanta Sila when one understands the Buddha’s worldview (i.e., gets rid of sakkaya ditthi and the other two associated samyojana) and becomes a Sotapanna.
- But one has not yet put it into practice.
- When one gets rid of kama raga (comprehending “distorted sanna” can help a lot here), one can become Sakadagami/Anagami.
- The last five samyojana are removed at the Arahant stage.
- They all involve understanding the Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada at increasingly deeper levels.
taryal: “I am curious to know how you come up with the information you present in this website. It seems different from other (western) sources of Buddha dhamma. For instance, where can I find the description of 4th Jhāna (or OBE) in the Tipitaka? Also, why is it that you claim Abhidhamma can only be discovered by a Buddha but western scholars like Bhikkhu Bodhi say it was likely a later addition?”
I do not intend to coerce or persuade anyone to read my website. Anyone can read it, take what they like, and leave what they don’t. Of course, I will do my best to answer any questions they may have. The rest of my life is dedicated to informing others (those with an interest and an open mind) about the value of Buddha’s original teachings.
- All my information comes from the Pali Tipitaka.
- Yes. It is different from “other (western) sources of Buddha dhamma.” I have explained why here: “Elephants in the Room.”
- I have many posts about jhana on the website. You can search the website using the “Search” box on the top right and read what you like. If you have questions, you can post them on the forum by specifying the post.
- Bhikkhu Bodhi has written a book on Abhidhamma: “Abhidhamma – Introduction“
Tobias G: “Thus, “paṭicca samuppāda” always means the process that leads to rebirth (even within one lifetime).”
Yes, Tobias. More information in “Paṭicca Samuppāda During a Lifetime“
OK, taryal. I understand that you are among most scientists who believe “science is never wrong.” But if you get deeper into Buddha Dhamma someday, you will see that Buddha Dhamma is the “ultimate science,” and modern science can not even come close.
- That is why you stated again, “When someone is manipulative enough to claim that “Nothing has happened in Origin of Life research since Miller – Urey experiment”, they have lost all credibility from the scientists that study this stuff.”
- I agree with the view that “Nothing significant has happened in Origin of Life research since the Miller–Urey experiment.”
- Making a bunch of organic molecules in an electric discharge is nothing compared to making a DNA strand. That is nothing compared to making a “living cell.” That is nothing compared to “creating a conscious life.”
- Scientists are nowhere close to any of those.
This discussion will not be useful because Modern science and Buddha Dhamma are built on two different foundations/axioms.
- Modern science believes the Earth started as a lifeless planet with conditions unsuitable for even primitive life. Furthermore, they believe life evolved gradually, and humans “evolved” only within the past few hundred thousand years.
- The Buddha stated that in the early stages, the Earth was very different in a radically different way. It had no trees or animals, but it was suitable for humans with “Brahma-like subtle/fine bodies.”
So, it is like arguing an issue starting with very different axioms. We can debate for years and years without agreeing.
- I suggest reading the following post, which lays out the basic ideas of Buddha’s worldview. I am not asking you to agree with it. But at least you will be able to see what I am trying to say: “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”
Another related point is that modern science has evolved over the past few hundred years by developing theories along the way. Scientists discarded theories that did not work and developed new or revised theories.
- In contrast, the Buddha’s worldview, laid out in the above post, has not changed. It is in the Tipitaka. Even though scientists have not yet accepted those fundamental axioms, they have accepted many other aspects over time.
- See, for example, “Dhamma and Science – Introduction.”
P.S. I noted the following sentence at the end of your comment: “Just when you are done with the issue of materialism, you will encounter the issue of creationism. What a messed up world this is, lmao.”
- Buddha’s worldview does not belong to materialism or creationism.
- It is based on Paticca Samuppada: Things (and living beings) come into existence based on “root causes and prevailing conditions.”
- The “Origin of Life” section is an introduction to that subject. If you look at the list of posts in that section, the last post is on Paticca Samuppada.
