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Added part 5 of the Series to Waharaka TV transcriptions of Waharaka Thero’s Desanas listed in my post on July 10, 2020, above.
Also added part 9 of the Series to Janith Fernando’s transcriptions of Waharaka Thero’s Desanas listed in my post on June 19, 2020, above.
– Both were sent to me by Patighosa Hojan (Hojanyun). Thanks, Hojanyun!
“I remembered there’s two stories that I have come across where a Frog after it got killed, was birthed into the Deva realms and another story of some bats were able birth into the Deva realms due to some monks chanting in the cave. Can we say that in those two stories, the animals were at the end of their Bhava?”
– It may be possible for those things to happen even if they had not reached the end of the bhava. But those are VERY rare.
– When the gandhabba comes out of the body at death, if the causes and conditions line up, it is possible that it may grasp a new bhava.
– Workings of the kamma, in fine detail, can only be done by a Buddha.“There’s also a Jataka story of the Bodhisattva being in hell.”
I don’t think that is right.
– The lowest realm a Bodhisatta can be reborn is the animal realm. Even there, The animal cannot be smaller than a certain size.“..how much meritorious deeds we had to do just to get a human birth?”
An alternative way to look at this could be helpful.
– We all are likely to ALREADY (in previous lives) have done kamma to be born in the lower realms as well as higher realms.
– One could be mindfully engaged in punna (kusala) kamma and avoid papa (akusala) kamma to be able to grasp a “good kamma seed” rather than a bad one.
– But the only way to guarantee that a bad seed will not be grasped is to get to at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage. That is by comprehending the Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada..y not asked: “Is the transcription correct?”
Yes. It is correct.
That Brahma realm was completely destroyed together with the Sun and the Earth.
– Baka Brahma was the first one to descend to that realm from the higher realm.Yes, Triplegem3! You seem to have got the idea.
You seem the have realized that we are chasing a mirage when we try to pursue sense gratification. One only gets tired (and old) in the end while relentlessly pursuing “pleasurable things” in this world.
– Of course, one gets rewarded at times on the way. But by the time death comes, there is nothing to show for it. Of course, one may have accumulated vast wealth but may be too frail and old to enjoy it. In any case, the thought of leaving all that behind at death is also part of suffering.As for the terminology, the following is one way to look at it.
– Dukkha dukkha is mostly suffering due to past bad kamma (or bad kamma vipaka). It is strongest in the lower realms but is present significantly in the human realm.
– The viparinama dukkha is dominant in higher realms. Even though there is no significant dukkha dukkha in Deva and Brahma realms, they also age and die.
– All three types of dukkha are in the human realm. Humans endure significant sankhara dukkha. Part of this is the effort to try to access more sense pleasures. When those accumulated valuables start decaying or destruction, then we need to engage in more sankhara to maintain them. Being worried about all that is also sankhara dukkha. Samphassa ja-vedana belongs to sankhara dukkha.If I have stated otherwise in earlier posts, please let me know. I may need to revise them.
Also see, “First noble truth“
The following post is by Triplegem3:
Episode 05 World and it’s real suffering
I would like to thank all the people involved in the distribution of this video, it’s was a tremendous help to me. Much merits to everyone involved. Saddhu saddhu saddhu.
It seems like, no matter how much I read something and understand it intellectually. It feels like it’s not the same when I can explain it/convince to myself or come up with my own examples and experiences to match with what I learned
A few weeks ago, I came to a realization one way for me to understand the Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta nature was like. “Hey wait a minute . . . one way I can understand about Anicca is that I can’t keep/maintain my FIVE SENSES to my satisfaction !! And because of this, I’m constantly in Dukkha and don’t even realize it. This is why I always have the urge to do something with my 5 senses and this can be one way to understand why our existence/reality is Dukkha. In order to satisfy these urges/senses, I have to add more Dukkha Dukkha. (Adding more Dukkha just to satisfy the first Dukkha) In order to do these things. I have to do Sankhara Dukkha. So if I’m doing abhiSankhara, that’s only causing me more Dukkha, just to satisfy the Dukkha I feel from not being able to maintain/keep my 5 senses to my liking! What am I’m doing all this Sankhara Dukkha for?
[ONLY FOR MORE DUKKHA THAT I’M GOING TO CREATE FOR MYSELF IN THE PRESENT AND INTO FUTURE AND ALL FOR WHAT? ANATTA something that’s no essence/unfruitful/meaningless/no refuge”] I felt 18:00 – 18:37 of the video helped me to confirm what I was realizing, it was so helpful.
From this, it helped me understand a little deeper when Lord Buddha used the word “Atteyati” (I’m probably wrong on the spelling) to describe all abhiSankhara. A dog chewing on a meatless bone. .In fact, I also feel like, I’m pouring gasoline on myself . . . When I realized this, I slapped myself on the face a few times and shook my head and said “What have I been doing all this time?” The Buddha Dhamma is so beautiful hahaha.
I’m just wondering, what I mentioned about not able to maintain/keep my 5 senses to my liking/satisfactions. Is it the same or something very similar as to what’s being taught from the 7:20 – 8:04 of the video?
I couldn’t completely understand Dukkha Dukkha for a while, even after reading about it. I’m just wondering would it be appropriate for me (from my own understanding) to say Dukkha Dukkha is having to ADD MORE DUKKHA just to satisfy the baseline Dukkha that I feel from my 5 senses? This extra Dukkha is from having to do more Abhisankhara. As well, another way to describe Dukkha Dukkha is from Vedana that arises in two ways. One from mentally (samphassa ja-vedana, my gati,asava’s getting attached) and another physically (such as physical ailments, pain). I know Lal wrote about this, but I’m just wondering if my own understanding of this Dukkha Dukkha is in line with what Lal has described Dukkha Dukkha as?
The critical point is how to “see” the unfruitfulness AND dangers of kama assada instead of seeing their pleasures as we normally tend to do.
The Buddha said to contemplate on the long-term bad consequences (adinava) of kama assada.
Any object in the world that provides such kama assada has anicca, dukkha, viparinama nature.
– That means one CANNOT maintain that to one’s satisfaction in the long run. Thus, it WILL bring suffering in the long-term when it INEVITABLY undergoes its unexpected changes/destruction (viparinama).
– Even if the object itself does not appear to do any of those three, one’s sensory faculties are subjected to those three characteristics.
– For example, a gold ring that one craves may not appear to have anicca, dukkha, viparinama nature during one’s lifetime (unless it is stolen or one may be forced to sell it in an emergency). But the person himself is subjected to the anicca, dukkha, viparinama nature. Thus, there is no escape.That is a simple analysis.
– A deeper aspect is that as long as one has cravings for such things, one would not be free of the kama loka.
– Of course, one only starts “seeing” this picture (Samma Ditthi) at the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
– Such cravings (or the corresponding wrong “sanna” or the “perception of value”) will be completely removed from the mind only at the Anagami stage.
– However, part of the wrong “sanna” will be removed even at the Sotapanna Anugami stage. That is why one would not do apayagami actions to get such sensory pleasures after the Sotapanna Anugami stage.Thus anicca nature needs to be contemplated with such examples. Just reading up on anicca, dukkha, anatta is not going to do anything.
– By the way, anatta means that one will never be able to free of the rebirth process as long as one does not see the above picture. One WILL become helpless when one is reborn in an apaya. There is nothing an animal, for example, can do until that life ends (by the life I mean that bhava, which can last thousands of years at a time).There are two aspects to the First Noble Truth.
1. There is hidden suffering in attaching to worldly things. An average human thinks highly of kama assada or sensory pleasures. But because of their tendency to do “whatever it takes” to fulfill sensory desires, average humans are tempted to do immoral things.
– Some people think they will not do immoral things. But that is only because they have not been subjected to high-enough temptation.2. Because of the above, average humans inevitably are reborn in the four realms at some point in the future. Suffering in those realms is worse than the suffering endured by ANY human.
That is one version of the “previously unheard Dhamma” of the Buddha.
– Even though they may get a temporary sensory satisfaction by “somehow fulfilling those desires” they pay for that when they are reborn in the apayas.A good analogy is a fish biting a tasty bait. There is a momentary pleasure (when seeing the tasty bait), followed by unbearable suffering.
– But unlike in that case, suffering in the rebirth process is not immediate.I just revised the post in question with an update on recent experiments:
“Neuroscience says there is no Free Will? – That is a Misinterpretation!”
This post is related to the new post published today:
“Mind Is Not in the Brain“It helps to first clarify exactly where kammic effects could manifest.
We are talking about committing murder.
For the kamma of taking a life to be “complete”, the following four steps need to be completed: there must be a living being, one must know that it is alive and one must have the intention to kill that being, one plans and carries out the necessary actions to kill, and finally, the living being ends up dead.
-If all necessary steps are completed, then it is called a kammā patha. That will bring the full kammic force of taking a life.
-The more parts completed, the greater the effect.C would not be involved in the activities of Group A if they took place.
– So, C would not be responsible for any of the four steps, except for the last step. It is possible that C could have prevented those murders. Of course, since C would not be involved in the killings in any way, the effect could be less for that step.The more serious issue could be the issue of compassion. C could prevent a large loss of life by exposing the plot.
– If C did not warn, and if a lot of people got killed, that could haunt C for a long time.It is not easy to resolve the kammic consequences of complex cases like this.
Unless this is a real issue, it is not even worth to contemplate too much on “theoretical” cases like this one.
y not wrote: “And if so, that will be the work of Dhammata in some way.”
Yes. That is why it is said that “Dhamma will protect and guide those who abide by Dhamma”.
– To “abide by Dhamma” one needs to understand it.If one starts TRULY COMPREHSNDING Dhamma (i.e., Tilakkhana or the unfruitfulness of this world or the First Noble Truth on suffering), then that is the beginning of the Noble Path.
– Then one is guaranteed to get to the Sotapanna phala moment.The following post is by Lvalio (Lair):
Lal Said: “Here is another key point:
Listening is not required to attain the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage.
It is also clear that a Sotapanna Anugami is also freed from the apāyās. See, “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās”
P.S. In other words, a Sotapanna Anugami is guaranteed to attain the Sotapanna stage”.Now, if one attains the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage it´s clear to me that soon or later he(she) will attain the Sotapana Stage. So I think that the most important thing is not to read or listen but learn the Dhamma, understanding the Dhamma…
That´s what I think.
Lair
Yes. It is possible that a gandhabba may not have one or more pasada rupa (usually one) missing.
– Yes. One could be born blind and deaf. But that is very rare.So, if the cakkhu pasada rupa is missing, that would be the case of a person born blind (jati andha).
– However, some are born without the ability to see, even if the cakkhu pasada rupa is there. If there is something wrong with the optical nerve or the visual cortex, that would of course lead to blindness. But, if those brain circuits can be repaired in some way, they would be able to see again.
– If the cakkhu pasada is missing, then nothing can bring sight to that person.Yes. My statement there could have been worded with more explanation.
– By the way, firewns is referring to #4 of my previous reply.So, let me state the steps in the correct order in what happens when a baby is conceived in a womb.
1. First, a gandhabba (mental boy) arises when a new bhava is grasped. For example, if a Deva dies and becomes a human, a human gandhabba arises at that moment.
2. Then that gandhabba waits for a suitable womb. When one becomes available, the gandhabba is pulled into that womb by kammic energy.
3. That gandhabba has the blueprint for the vital parts of a new human body (for example, if one is to be born blind, then it would not have the cakkhu pasada rupa). However, other physical characteristics (body color and even body shapes) come from the zygote produced by the two parents.
“Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception”
– That is what I referred to there. The “nama” part comes from the gandhabba and some parts of the “rupa” comes from the zygote.
– In that process, “vinnana paccaya namarupa” step involves “patisandhi vinnana” which is essentially gandhabba. It gives rise to the seed of the physical body of a new human (namarupa” there).
– This is why some terms may have different meanings in different contexts.4. In Idapaccaya PS, “namarupa” refers to “mental images” that arise while thinking about a kammic action: “avijja paccaya sankhara”,.. to “vinnana paccaya namarupa”.
So, one needs to spend some time and figure out what happens. It is not possible to mechanically put in definitions.
You wrote: “However, hadaya vatthu would have to be formed when the gandhabba is formed, as it is part of the mental body.”
– Yes. That is correct.
– But the baby’s physical body needs to build the physical eyes, ears, etc to be able to “sense the external world” as we are discussing in the new series:
“Buddha Dhamma – A Scientific Approach”So, I hope the answers to the other questions are clear now.
– If not, please feel free to ask.To emphasize, terms of the PS processes (Uppatti and Idapaccaya) can have very different meanings. The twp processes are discussed separately, for example, in:
“Viññāna Paccayā Nāmarūpa”
“Nāmarūpa Paccayā Salāyatana”Hello Simsapa!
You asked: “How can I verify the truth of the realms and rebirth in my current state? There seems to be no way to do that. If I investigate it, I say “I cannot confirm or deny it”.
Yes. That is an issue that needs to be resolved BEFORE one can attempt to get to the Sotapanna stage.
Look at it this way.
– Sotapanna stage makes one free of future rebirths in the four “bad realms” or the apayas.Why would one want to get to the Sotapanna stage, if one does not believe that it is possible to be reborn in such realms?
– If one cannot “verify the truth of the realms and rebirth“, why would one worry about rebirth in the apayas (i.e., try to attain the Sotapanna stage)?I hope you can see what I am saying. If there is no problem to be solved, how can one strive to solve the problem?
So, I would recommend spending some time looking into the issue of rebirth.
– Here is a key post on the evidence for rebirth:
“Evidence for Rebirth”I do understand that most people in Western societies are not familiar with the concept of rebirth. However, that is changing, because there is a lot of evidence emerging, and scientists and philosophers are beginning to take it seriously. That is why I included a recent conference on the subject at the beginning of the post.
The following post is by firewns:
Lal,
You wrote in #4: ‘In the uppati PS, namarupa is the merging of the gandhabba with the zygote to create the “seed” for the new human with a physical body’ and ‘Hadaya vatthu is created at the “bhava paccaya jati” step in the uppatti PS’.
However, hadaya vatthu would have to be formed when the gandhabba is formed, as it is part of the mental body. Furthermore, if the bhava stage precedes the jati stage, then before the being is born, it should exist as a gandhaba in the paraloka waiting for a suitable womb to merge with a suitable zygote.
1) Thus would it not follow that the hadaya vatthu would have been created before the jati step?
2) In your post on ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda for Vipāka Viññāṇa’, what is ‘chaṭṭhāyatanaṃ’ which you mentioned in #8 related to ‘nama paccaya chaṭṭhāyatanaṃ’?
Thank you very much in advance for your reply.
