Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
“Dead people meet their dead relatives “on the other side”. This directly contradicts the teachings on your website.”
You don’t seem to understand the concepts described. I am not blaming you, but it takes an effort to grasp these complex issues.
– I am not obliged to explain anything to anyone, even though I try to do my best.
– If you don’t like the explanations you don’t have to read the posts here.
– If there are issues that you don’t understand, and you like to find the answers, ask questions respectfully. These issues are complex, and it is not possible to explain everything in a few posts. Furthermore, once one understands the basics, one should be able to figure out some of the related issues (depending on the level of understanding).For the benefit of others:
– Gandhabba that comes out of a “dead person” IS THAT SAME PERSON (without the physical body). Sometimes they live in the paraloka (where gandhabbas live) with a “fine body” that is quite similar to the body that died.
– The paraloka is very complex. Some of the dead relatives may be in paraloka with such “fine bodies” still recognizable. Living beings with similar gati tend to get together, so a person having NDE experience may be drawn to those in the paraloka with similar gati. That is why sometimes people who had NDE experiences say they met dead relatives.
– However, some change their gati rapidly while in the paraloka. Also, many may not be human gandhabbas anymore (they may be born in other bhava, such as Deva, animal, peta, etc.)
– In some NDE cases, a person may be drawn to a part of paraloka that is almost like a deva loka (with gandhabbas with “deva gati.” They say they visited “heaven”. See, for example, the book “Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife” by Eben Alexander. Also, see:– This is why there are many types of NDE experiences reported by different people.
Hello yann,
You may not have seen MANY posts on this site about OBE/NDE.
See, for example, “Out-of-Body Experience (OBE) and Manōmaya Kāya”
There are two sections:
We have had many discussions on the subject at the following discussion forum:
“Gandhabba Forum“Some of those are stated in the “Bahudhātuka Sutta (MN 115)“:
“Aṭṭhānametaṃ anavakāso yaṃ itthī arahaṃ assa sammāsambuddho, netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjatī’ti pajānāti; ‘ṭhānañca kho etaṃ vijjati yaṃ puriso arahaṃ assa sammāsambuddho, ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’ti pajānāti. ‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ anavakāso yaṃ itthī rājā assa cakkavattī, netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjatī’ti pajānāti; ‘ṭhānañca kho etaṃ vijjati yaṃ puriso rājā assa cakkavattī, ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’ti pajānāti. ‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ anavakāso yaṃ itthī sakkattaṃ kareyya … mārattaṃ kareyya … brahmattaṃ kareyya, netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjatī’ti pajānāti; ‘ṭhānañca kho etaṃ vijjati yaṃ puriso sakkattaṃ kareyya … mārattaṃ kareyya … brahmattaṃ kareyya, ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’ti pajānāti.”
English translation there, “Many Elements“:
“They understand: ‘It’s impossible for a woman to be a perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha. But it is possible for a man to be a perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha.’ They understand: ‘It’s impossible for a woman to be a wheel-turning monarch. But it is possible for a man to be a wheel-turning monarch.’ They understand: ‘It’s impossible for a woman to perform the role of Sakka, Māra, or Brahmā. But it is possible for a man to perform the role of Sakka, Māra, or Brahmā..”It must be noted that a woman could be reborn as a man in later lives and then attain the Buddhahood.
– I have heard (but not confirmed) that our Gotama Buddha started his quest to become a Buddha as a woman.
– However, all his previous lives closer to attaining the Buddhahood were male births.Note: Please provide a reasonably descriptive title to a question. That way it would be easier to search.
This is a very good question. It points out an important issue that I have talked about. It is a VERY BAD idea to translate a given sutta word-by-word, without providing the context.
This sutta refers ONLY to vipaka vedana: “Sukhā vedanā, dukkhā vedanā, adukkhamasukhā vedanā“. These are felt by the physical body.
– These types of vedana arise as kamma vipaka. Sukha vedana are due to good past kamma. Dukha vedana due to bad kamma. Adukkhamasukhā (adukkha asukha) vedanā are neutral feelings but could lead to uddacca, kukkucca, or vicikicca (basically not sure about what to do).Based on those vipaka vadana, we may create “mind-made vedana” or samphassa-ja-vedana. This is where we accumulate new kamma.
When we start comprehending Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada (PS), we will start seeing that attaching to sukha vedana can lead to future suffering. That leads to somanassa vedana type of samphassa-ja-vedana and we start accumulating new kamma via “avijja paccaya sankhara.”
– That is why the sutta says, “pleasant feeling, bhikkhus, should be seen as suffering”
– That is because that leads to future suffering since the PS process ends up with “dukkhakkhandha samudayo hoti”On the other hand, we get distraught (patigha) with dukha vedana and that leads to “mind-made domanassa vedana”. Then again we generate new kamma via “avijja paccaya sankhara.”
– Here one suffers two ways. One due to that vipaka vedana. The second in the future due to the kamma accumulated.
– That is why the sutta says, “painful feeling should be seen as a dart”, where it is suffering from beginning to end.Furthermore, neutral vedana can also lead to new kamma due to not knowing how to respond to an arammana (due to uddacca, kukkucca, or vicikicca). When one learns Dhamma, one will not have doubts/uncertainties.
Details at, “Vēdanā (Feelings) Arise in Two Ways”
The Pali version of the sutta: “Dutiyavedanā Sutta
English translation that Raja provided: “Feelings”
Raja: Please remember to check the “Open link in a new tab” box when setting up a link (that is what I did in the above link). That way, the link will be opened in a new browser window. Then one can go back and forth between your post and the link.
Thank you, Tobias.
I had forgotten about this video when I replied to Exist above.
Yes. This girl was apparently a Deva at the time of the Buddha and remained in that realm for hundreds of years after the Parinibbana of the Buddha.
– She had seen the Buddha alive and also had seen the statues of Buddha that were built hundreds of years after the Parinibbana of the Buddha (maybe she has been in that realm until recently.)
– As I mentioned in that post referred to by Tobias, she says the statues are quite different from the appearance of the real Buddha.I just watched the video again and it is amazing!
– Accounts in the Tipitaka are quite consistent with this three-year-old’s account.
– Another bit of information that I missed was the following. Soon after the Buddha attained the Buddhahood, two merchants from Burma visited the Buddha. They asked for something to remember the occasion and the Buddha gave them a few strands of his hair. They took that back to Burma and built a vihara in memory of the Buddha (with that dhatu inside). It is still being venerated by Burmese today. The two merchants were Tapussa and Bhallika, and they were the first layman to take refuge in the Buddha. See, the first verse of “AN 1.248”
– You can, of course, find the Pali version there easily.Here is the video again:
“දෙව්ලොව විස්තරය – පෙර භවය දකින දරුවෙකු විසින් Buddhist Heaven“The Buddha has provided a detailed account of jhanic experience in detail:
“Jhānic Experience in Detail – Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2)”Each jhana has different levels: weak, medium, and strong. The descriptions are strong experiences.
– As one cultivates the fourth jhana, any feelings about the body will gradually fade away.
– Remember that each jhanic experience describes the experience of a Brahma in the corresponding Brahma realm.
– At the peak of the fourth jhana, one is about to enter the arupavacara jhana depicting arupavacara Brahmas. They have only the mind.
– Therefore, the breathing would stop in the fourth jhana.
– In the same way, bodily pains should go away in early jhanas. Brahmas do not feel pain.To get to any jhana, one must transcend the kama loka. In anariya jhana that is achieved on a temporary basis, by just suppressing kama raga.
– This is why one can attain even the first Ariya jhana only when one is at the Anagami stage, where there is no kama raga anusaya left.That statement is in ALL suttas describing jhanic experience (see #2):
“So vivicceva kāmehi, vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṃ savicāraṃ vivekajaṃ pītisukhaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati..“.Thus “vivicceva kāmehi” could be on a temporary basis (anariya jhana) and on a permanent basis in Ariya jhana.
– Here “permanent” means one will NEVER lose the ability to get into jhana, even in future lives. That is why an Anagami DOES NOT come back to lower realms from the rupavacara Brahma realms reserved for Anagamis.
– Those who cultivate anariya jhana are also born in other rupavacara Brahma realms. But they “come back” to the human realm, and in subsequent rebirths could be reborn in apayas as well. They are not “permanently released” from any realm in kama loka.No. I have not seen a rebirth account from a life in the time of the Buddha.
Yes. It would be interesting to hear such an account from someone who had seen the Buddha.
However, most past-life accounts that I have seen are within the past 100 years.
P.S. Here is one of the “oldest” rebirth accounts that I have seen:
“Boy Who Remembered Pāli Suttas for 1500 Years“There is a deeper point conveyed in that sutta.
1. Maha Brahma is more powerful than any being below that domain. But that is the same a king is above all others in his domain. Both have finite lifetimes. In the next birth, they both can be reborn in lower realms.
2. Even a worm living today had been a Brahma, Deva, or a human in many previous lives.
3. Until attaining Nibbana, any living being WILL BE subjected to suffering in the four lowest realms in the future UNLESS at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage is attained.
It turns out that I have discussed parts of this sutta in the post, “Anidassana Viññāṇa – What It Really Means” starting at #12.
– But it is a good idea to read the whole post.In #12, I discuss the background of why the Buddha made a trip to Brahma loka to meet the Baka Brahma, who came to the wrong view that he was the supreme entity controlling the world. The verse that Vinh quoted is part of a verse that Baka Brahma uttered saying that he was “in control” of the whole world made of pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo.
– The Buddha explained to him that there were higher Brahma worlds that Baka Brahma was not even aware of.The English translation of the sutta, “On the Invitation of Brahmā” is good enough to see that context.
– But the translation of some deep verses in the sutta like, “viññāṇāṁ anidassanaṁ anantaṁ sabbato pabhaṁ..” is not good in that translation.Anyway, please feel free to ask questions if this is not clear.
– Please refer to specific verses or bullet #s in my post when asking questions.Thanks, Seng Kiat.
I am going to be busy today. Hopefully, I will be able to look at the sutta later today.
If anyone can address Vinh’s question, please feel free to do so.
I am not sure either. Can you copy and paste the relevant passage?
Also please provide the link if possible (or where you read the English translation). Is it Sutta Central?
Tobias wrote: “My point is that I think this is not so clear described somewhere on your website.”
Yes. It is possible that in old posts the concept is not described in the same way.
– It is not easy to check for such posts. As you all know, I keep revising old posts as I come across inadequacies or even mistakes occasionally. The goal is to be consistent with the Tipitaka to the fullest extent.
– If you or anyone else come across such posts, please post in the forum or send me an email: [email protected].P.S.
The concept is discussed in more detail in the recent post: “Nāma Loka and Rupa Loka – Two Parts of Our World“
Thank you for your perspective, Lang.
– Yes. Many Theravadins also have misconceptions about gandhabba.
– But understanding the gandhabba concept is CRITICALLY important. That will become even more clear in upcoming posts.
– The dense physical body is secondary and the gandhabba (mental body) is primary. Sensory EXPERIENCE happens in the mental body. The next post will be critical to understanding that point.Your question/comment: “At any moment, there must be a lot more (if not infinite) gandhabbas waiting for limited wombs, since human wombs are finite; hence the importance of mother and father (as indicated in miccha ditthi #7 and 8).”
– That is absolutely right.
– There could be an uncountable human/animal gandhabbas waiting for a womb. That is more true for humans and “higher womb-born animals” than for “lower animals”.
– That is because one’s gati must roughly match those of the parents to get into a womb.TripleGemStudent wrote: “I asked myself “why am I practicing the Buddha dhamma for?” Since after this jati, if there’s a next bhava/jati, I wouldn’t be able to remember anything from this jati, as well it won’t be the current “I/me/self” that is suffering or enjoying, why should I care what happens to my next bhava/jati?.”
Yes. That is a question that comes to the mind of many people when I try to explain that there is no “soul” going from one life to another AND it is also not the case that they are totally different.
The answers that you have come up with are all valid.
Another way to look at it is the following.
1. You are not the same as when you were a few years ago. That is true in both your rupa and your mindset (vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana).
– However, you have the same PERCEPTION of “me” and “mine.”
– Those children who describe their previous birth always have that perception too. They say “I was this and that. I died this way, etc.”2. In some births (for example, peta or hungry ghost births), one can recall what happened in previous lives that led to that particular birth (just like those children can their past life.)
3. If anyone cultivates jhana (Ariya or anariya) to the fourth jhana, they can see their past lives as well.
Even though the PERCEPTION of “me” is not correct in the ultimate sense, the suffering is real. That is the main point. Suffering does not stop until that perception of “me” goes away at the Arahant stage.
– At the Sotapanna stage, one only realizes that the perception of “me” is not correct AND that is why one is engaged in the rebirth process in the hopes of “enjoying life”.
– But that craving for enjoyment (kama raga) itself is the cause for future rebirths!
– One thing that Susima Thero explains well is the dangers of kama raga.
