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I have mentioned previously that some parts of the English translations of Waharaka Thero’s discourses are NOT correct.
– Please don’t post any more of these “translated” videos.
– Translations are as good as the understanding of the translator.
– I am sure that most parts are OK, but I don’t have time to make corrections for incorrect/incomplete translations.It is not correct to say, “Once the five aggregates disintegrate, the perception of the “I” disappears from there.” as quoted by the TripleGemStudent above.
– The five aggregates DO NOT disintegrate. I am not sure what the translator meant by that statement.
– Only the craving for the five aggregates is stopped totally at the Arahant stage., i.e., there is no pancupadanakkhandha for an Arahant.
– As I explained in my detailed response above, the “past component” of the five aggregates cannot change. They have become namagotta or memories. They never change.TripleGemStudent: If you go through the two subsections that I provided links to, you should be able to clarify these issues.
– If you don’t understand any given bullet # in a given post, please quote that and ask a question. It is pointless to describe the same things again and again.P.S. The comments by Lang are correct.
Thank you, Lang!
– Yes. The post that you quoted explains the difference between sakkaya ditthi and anatta.It is one of three related posts on the subject:
“Sakkāya Diṭṭhi and Paṭicca Samuppāda”It is a good idea to read all three posts.
Sakkāya Diṭṭhi arises in those who do not understand the Paṭicca Samuppāda process.
– I had discussed Paṭicca Samuppāda in detail. But in the new series, I discuss the Paṭicca Samuppāda process from another angle:
“Paṭicca Samuppāda – Essential Concepts““I understand Sakkaya as Pancupadanakkhandha.”
– That is correct.“Is it appropriate to take Sakkaya as a perception (sanna) and Sakkaya Ditthi as a view (ditthi)?”
– No. That is not correct.I think it is a good idea to understand what is meant by pancakkhandha first.
– To do that, it is better to start with rupakkhandha.Rupakkhandha is defined to be of 11 types: “past, present, future, internal (one’s own), external, close-by, far away, good, bad, fine (sukuma), granular (olarika).”
– We can focus on the five categories bolded.So, rupakkhandha (collection of all rupa experienced by any given person) includes all rupa that one has experienced in the past (including past lives), one’s experienced at the present time, and one’s images about rupa to be experienced in the future.
– In the other important categories in bold, includes one’s own rupa and those external.
– Also, rupa includes all types: rupa rupa (visuals), sadda rupa (sounds), rasa rupa (tastes), etc.So, as you can see, one person’s rupakkhandha is different from another. It is all about what one has experienced, experiencing, and expect to experience.
The other four aggregates are the same way.
Thus, it would be clear that pancakkhadha is one’s own world.
From all that one would be “attached to” only a tiny fraction. That is pancupadanakkhandha.
– “Sakkāya” comes from “sath” + “kāya”, where “sath” means “good” and “kāya” is a “collection.”
– P.S. Here “kāya” is the same as those parts of the five aggregates (pancakkhandha) that one perceives to be “good/enjoyable/beneficial..”
– Thus, “sakkāya ditthi” is to VIEW pancupadanakkhandha as good, and “should be mine”/”beneficial to be taken as mine”.That is just a ditthi (view). That wrong ditthi goes away at the Sotapanna stage. A Sotapanna would see that attachment to anything in this world (“avijja paccaya sankhara”) will ALWAYS end up with “jati paccaya jara, marana, etc),i.e., to more births and more suffering.
– But the perception (sanna) of a “me” will still be there in a Sotapanna. That wrong perception is very hard to get rid of. It reduced gradually at the higher stage of magga phala and goes away completely only at the Arahant stage.
– In other words, a Sotapanna removes ditthi vipallasa. But it is only at the Arahant stage that sanna (and citta) vipallasa removed.
– There are more details. But that is a CRITICAL summary to be understood.The following post is from TripleGemStudent:
“Now whenever I feel myself craving something, and especially if I allow myself to think thoughts related to it, I feel pain instead of whatever it felt like before. Is this magga phala?”
I went through a similar experience but a little bit different. In this world, no one can tell if another person attained magga phala or not besides the Buddha or that person themselves. In addition to what you’re learning here from the puredhamma website, I recommend you to also check out these video’s for additional teachings on Sotapanna’s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwzhsdbWdo
“Also the post on how to tell if one is a Sotapanna says that one should see the way to Nibanna. I don’t know if I see that, only that whenever I act on craving it causes pain.”
It is taught that one of the things that Sotapanna’s sees/knows the world as/is Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta and sees/knows Nibbana as/is nicca, sukha, atta.
In regards to why you are feeling pain when you’re craving for something, the Buddha dhamma Paticca Samuppada is one of the teachings that can give you some answers. Hint: Paticca Samuppada cycles. As well have you understood the four noble truths correctly? Let me know if you are able to figure this out or what answers you came up with own understanding/knowing/seeing of the Buddha Dhamma
Something to keep in mind, it is taught that when one is trying to understand/see dukkha, it should not be through vedana/feeling, but with wisdom.
With Metta,
Hello coolguy16,
You seem to have personally experienced the stress caused by “pleasurable activities” such as playing video games.
– That is a good start.
– Keep learning Dhamma and things will become more clear.
– When one gets to the Sotapanna stage, one’s mind will get to a “peaceful state.” It is not a sudden drop but is a gradual reduction.First, when one starts seeing the root causes of stress as cravings, one would gradually start losing those cravings for playing video games, watching useless movies, etc.
– With time, one would feel the relief. That provides the confidence to learn more.
– We have the wrong view/perception that those mind-pleasing activities are good for us. It is not that different when a fish bites into a tasty bait. The fish does not see the dangers there.Hello Aniduan,
Thanks for taking the time to point it out. But it is not a typo.
The number of ultimate entities comes to 82 with Nibbana.
However, “The 81 “basic units” that make up this world are one pure citta, 52 cetasika, and 28 types of rūpa.
– Thus, 81 refers ONLY to “this world.’
– Nibbana is NOT in this world.I just listened to just 4th English discourse that y not referred to above.
– I have not listened to the first three yet.y not wrote: ‘The one thing that struck me as ‘new'(to me),though in no way ‘revolutionary’ in the sense of not being consistent with Dhamma, is the relation given between moha and raga/dvesha – around 11’14” in Discourse 4 – Sensual Dancers.”
Yes. It is a good way to look at the overall situation. In my next post, I will go to the first discourse of the Buddha to get to the root of it.
– But as the Thero pointed out, it is not trivial to remove raga, dosa, moha from a mind. It requires getting to lokottara Samma Ditthi.
– That is the comprehension of the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana that we talk about all the time. Without seeing the drawbacks of raga, dosa, and moha it is impossible to remove them from a mind.By the way, those concepts are basic ones taught in schools in Sri Lanka (a bit simpler version than given by the Thero).
– I probably need to write a couple of posts on those (raga, dosa, moha). Let me know your thoughts.The following two subsections discuss some basic concepts.
– Raga, dosa, moha are discussed in various sections on the website, but maybe I should add a few more posts to the following section: “Dhamma Concepts”
– Another section on basic concepts is: “Sorting out Some Key Pāli Terms (Taṇhā, Lobha, Dosa, Moha, etc)“Thank you, y not. I did not notice that.
– I will try to listen to the English discourses when I have time.Yes. It is possible that before becoming a bhikkhu that Thero lived in Italy for a while. So, it is good that he can speak English and Italian as well!
Those who listen in English or Italian, please feel free to comment.
I think it is better to leave things as they are.
– If I try to add this, it could be a distraction.Furthermore, “Kusala-Mula Paṭicca Samuppāda” starts with “kusala-mula paccayā saṅkhāra” and NOT “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra” as in “Akusala-Mula Paṭicca Samuppāda”
But it is a valid point. Thanks for pointing it out.
Tobias wrote: “New bhava arise also in kusala mula PS as long as the noble path is not finished.”
That is correct.
However, those bhava lead to Nibbana and NOT to keep one in the rebirth process (samsara).
See, “Kusala-Mula Paṭicca Samuppāda”
– The last sentence there is, “Instead of future suffering, conditions for attaining Nibbāna result with the kusala-mula PS process.”But I see your point. I will think about how to add this to the post you referred to.
1. Samma Samadhi is the eighth is the 8th step in the Noble Path.
– When one starts with Samma Ditthi (by comprehending Noble Truths/Tilakkhna/Paticca Samuppada) to some extent, one starts on the Noble Path as a Sotapanna Anugami.
– When the path is cultivated (with all eight steps), one gradually cultivates Samma Samadhi. At various stages, one is elevated to higher stages (Atthapurisa puggala).
– When Samma Samadhi is complete at the Arahant Magga/Phala stage, one goes through two more steps (Samma Nana and Samma Vimutti) and becomes an Arahant.
– After getting to the Arahant stage, the Path is complete and there is no need to cultivate samadhi. However, that Arahant phala citta is not experienced at all times.
2. Therefore, even an Arahant is not in that type of “ultimate samadhi” at all times.
– I think that is what is referred to in the quote by Ven. Sayadaw in Christian’s post.
– The Arahant phala moment comes and goes.
– But an Arahant can get back to Arahant phala samapatti at later times. Only then is an Arahant can get back to the Aranaht phala citta.3. There are many types of samadhi: “What is Samādhi? – Three Kinds of Mindfulness”
– Samadhi normally means getting into a “calm and concentrated state of mind.”
– There are “bad” or “miccha” samadhi as well, as discussed in that post.4. Finally, samadhi is also different from jhana: “Samādhi, Jhāna, Magga Phala – Introduction”
5. One way to think about this as follows:
– A glass of water can look clean from the top with some mud deposited at the bottom. That can be compared to the calm mind of an average person when five hindrances do not disturb the mind (for example, when concentrating n breath).
– However, if a strong arammana (say, thoughts about an enemy) comes to the mind, that mind will be agitated. That is like stirring that glass of water with a stirrer.
– I discussed that example in #11 through #13 in “What Are Kilesa (Mental Impurities)? – Connection to Cetasika”We can discuss this further if needed. But those are the key points.
Is there a contradiction?
If so, please provide the link to what you stated above. I can take a look.
Another way to clarify this is the following.
1. Anything in this world arises due to six causes: lōbha, dōsa, mōha and alōbha, adōsa, amōha.
– Those alōbha, adōsa, amōha refer to MUNDANE alōbha, adōsa, amōha.
– They lead to “good rebirths”. See, “Kusala and Akusala Kamma, Puñña and Pāpa Kamma.”
– In other words, those alōbha, adōsa, amōha still are based on the ignorance of the Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada. One does punna kamma (and NOT kusala kamma) with that version of alōbha, adōsa, amōha.2. When one comprehends Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada, a deeper level of miccha ditthi is removed, and then punna kamma automatically become kusala kamma.
– Therefore the verse “…Tattha katame kusalamūlā? Alobho, adoso, amoho—ime vuccanti “kusalamūlā”. …” refer to that deeper level of alōbha, adōsa, amōha.You may have understood that. I just wanted to make sure.
