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That section of the video requires a detailed explanation of why the underlying thought process of that bhikkhu was good, but cuti-patisandhi does not really happen (or can be stopped) just according to one’s wishes.
– I will try to explain this again in a new series of posts starting with the next post. Everything happens via Paticca Samuppada. There is no “self” directing one’s own wishes at EVERY MOMENT. However, one can make decisions when one is generating vaci sankhara CONSCIOUSLY. This is a finer point that needs to be grasped.
– Cuti-patisandhi happens in a citta vithi that takes place in a billionth of a second. There is no time to consciously decide. It happens according to one’s gati. For example, a Sotapanna would not have “apayagami gati” and thus his mind will AUTOMATICALLY reject a transition to a bhava in the lowest four realms.That bhikkhu was just recalling memories. If he was close to the cuti-patisandhi moment, his kammic energy for the human bhava would have been exhausted, and he would have made a transition to the next bhava. It is not a conscious decision to reject a transition to the next bhava.
That is why the following statement does not make sense:
” However, Lal says that this cuti-patisandhi transition does not occur at every death, only at the end of a bhava (so it could also happen days after the death of a body, in the Gandhabba, I assume) Is it to be assumed that we all, when we die in this life, will experience these flashes but we might not necessarily grasp for anything, such that our bhava will just continue (in the same way as someone who just has an NDE but “decides” to return back to his life)?”
– One needs to understand the difference between the death of the physical body and the cuti-patisandhi moment that happens at the end of the human bhava.
“Bhava and Jāti – States of Existence and Births Therein““You said, their body shields the hadaya vatthu. How dense must their body be then? If it would be a few rupa only, would that be enough to shield?”
We cannot think about “shielding” in terms of our perceptions.
– The human body “shields” the gandhabba (hadaya vatthu plus pasada rupa) inside.
– The human body is not concrete or steel.
– We have no idea how kamma works. Only a Buddha would know.See, “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body” and “Clarification of “Mental Body” and “Physical Body” – Different Types of ‘Kāya’“
Any living being is born with an “ekaja kaya” and it has hadaya vatthu.
An asanna being also has an ekaja kaya, but it is fully shielded by its physical boy. That “body” does not have the ability to interact with the external world at all.
– It is very similar to an arupavacara Brahma, except that an arupavacara Brahma’s hadaya vatthu is not shielded and it can directly interact with “dhammā” and generate thoughts.There is a difference between bhavanga and bhavanga citta. See, “Bhava and Bhavanga – Simply Explained!”
Since you can understand Sinhala, you may want to listen to the following discourse by Wahraka Thero:
“ධර්ම දේශනා 1”In particular, listen to the segment starting at 1:16:00 hours. But it is best to listen to the whole discourse.
I see your reference in Bhikkhu Bodhi’s book. As I said before, there are several contradictions in that book, even though mostly correct.
P.S.
The difference between plants and living beings is that plants only have jivitindriya and no hadaya vatthu. Thus its life is sustained by kammic energy, but it cannot generate citta.
– But even in an asanna-being bhavanga is active the whole time. The “bhavanga state” has nothing to do with citta (thoughts). Therefore, an asanna-being is not aware of anything.I listened to part of it some days back. Here is what I remember.
He is a practicing medical doctor (physician). He seems to have a fairly good understanding of many Dhamma concepts.
The interviewer was knowledgeable too. He did raise the question of whether a householder can remain alive 7 days after attaining Arahanthood. That question was not directly answered. He kind of implied that the interviewer is not as knowledgeable as him!
– That seemed to be the pattern during the interview. Some questions did not get satisfactory answers.There are many “self-claimed Arahants” in Sri Lanka.
That is all I can say. Others are welcome to comment, but it is not our position to deny claims by others.
– However, one problem with the above account is that it is not possible to attain Arahanthood and remain a “householder” for more than 7 days, as we have discussed in this forum.“Mr. Goenka teaches the students to practice samphassa-ja-vedana in ones daily activities.”
I don’t think that statement is true based on accounts that I have personally heard from friends who attended those sessions.
– I don’t think those instructors even know the phrase “samphassa-ja-vedana.”I am not saying that going to those sessions is bad. It may serve the purpose of temporary relief from daily stresses. I have a friend who, several months after a session, says it is time to go back to “get that same experience.”
– Of course, I don’t even discuss this subject with my friend. I just listen to what he has to say.Different people teach Dhamma differently and at various levels. Also, different people understand Dhamma at different levels. That is how it has been always.
– This is all I am going to say for now on this topic.Again, please provide the page # of the book:
“According to Ven. Bodhi, no heart-base is produced for that realm (only the vital nonad).”
OK. I am glad that you heard the story directly from Waharaka Thero’s discourse.
T did a search for “Pilindavaccha” and did not come up with a Tipitaka reference for that account. But sometimes Waharaka Thero accidentally gets the name wrong. It is possible the Arahant’s name is not “Pilindavaccha”.
– Also, this account may not be in a sutta, but in the Vinaya Pitaka.Raj asked: “The common understanding is that the Buddha said that there is no self, but the question is what gets liberated?”
The Buddha never taught that there is no “self”. He did not teach there is a “self” either. He said those two are extremes. At every moment a living being exists due to causes accumulated in the past and conditions prevailing at that time (So, there is a “sufferer” at each moment.) That is explained in Paticca Samuppada. I plan to discuss this in detail in upcoming posts.
Based on that misinterpretation of anatta as “no-self”, a question that many people ask is what you asked in a different way: “Who attains Nibbana?”
Here is what the Buddha taught:
1. We all go through a rebirth process where one can be born human, Deva, animal, etc. Where one is reborn depends on what type of kamma (good or bad deeds) one has done not only in this life but also in previous lives.
2. The concept of “me” cannot be retained in that view. If one is reborn as an animal, then “WHO” is it? That animal or the human in the previous life?
3. Since most rebirths are in “bad realms” (like the animal realm), the Buddha said there is much more suffering in the rebirth process, even though pleasures are also there (for example, some humans don’t suffer that much, at least until old age).
4. Thus, there is no “me” in ultimate reality, However, as mentioned above, there is a “sufferer” until the rebirth process ends!
5. That “suffering-filled rebirth process” can be stopped by understanding how that rebirth process takes place. That is the teaching of the Buddha. It is called Paticca Samuppada. When one understands that process, one can see how to end the rebirth process.“Anatta” does not mean “no-self”:
“Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta“First of all, this topic is better suited for the Abhidhamma section. But it is too late now to move it there.
Regarding Question #1 and #2 of TripleGemStudent:
It seems that this section of Paticcasamuppadavibhanga MAY HAVE some mistakes.
– However, without spending a lot of time I cannot say for sure.
– As I mentioned in the earlier comment, within each Paticca Samuppada cycle, there are 4 sub-cycles. This is why the Buddha told Ven. Ananda that Paticca Samuppada can get to very deep levels. See, “Mahānidāna Sutta DN 15)” English translation there: “The Great Discourse on Causation”
– The way it is written, it is very difficult to sort out the sequences involved in the 4 sub-cycles as I explained to Seng Kiat last year in an email exchange. Hopefully, that will make it clear somewhat. Obviously, this complex process cannot be described in a post or even a couple of posts. But you can get a rough idea of the complexity involved.Seng Kiat:
In the Kusala-Mūla Paṭicca Samuppāda topic under #3, the “ viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpa, nāmarūpa paccayā saḷāyatana, saḷāyatana paccayā phasso” should be replaced with “ viññāṇapaccayā nāmaṃ, nāmapaccayā chaṭṭhāyatanaṃ, chaṭṭhāyatanapaccayā phasso”.
The nāma and chaṭṭāyatana are mentioned only in the Vibhaṅga of Tipiṭaka Abhidhamma section 6 Paṭiccasamuppādavibhaṅga under “2.2 Kusalaniddesa 2.10.1. 2.10.1 Kāmāvacarakusalacitta 2.10.1.1. Mahākusalacitta”.
The chaṭṭāyatana is the sixth āyatana which is the mind (mano).
#6 nāma only without the rūpa.
#7 (nāma only) and #8 saḷāyatana also to be replaced with chaṭṭhāyatana.
My Reply:
This is a bit complex process that you mentioned. There are three more steps to it, to complete. You may be able to see that if you read further there.
The process that I describe in the post is the NET RESULT.
It is section 2. 2 Abhidhammabhājanīya close to the beginning of the webpage:
https://suttacentral.net/vb6/pli/msThe KUSALA-MULA process that you refer to comes much later.
The Vibhanga (for some reason) explains ONLY the AKUSALA-MULA PS process in detail (over many pages until the KUSALA-MULA section that you refer to.
I would not have been able to figure that out if I did not have access to the discourses of Waharaka Thero. He explained that in detail.
As I said previously, “It is not easy to follow those 16 cycles. There are 4 cycles each for 2.1. Paccayacatukka, 2.2. Hetucatukka, 2.3. Sampayuttacatukka, 2.4. Aññamaññacatukka.
That means for four types of paccaya: paccaya, hetu, sampayutta, Aññamañña.
– As you can see there are four cycles (catukka) within each.”Such a DETAILED analysis is NOT given for the KUSALA-MULA process.
– It just stops after the first step in a 16-step process.
– But if you go through the AKUSALA-MULA steps you may be able to see what I am trying to say.
– It seems that part of the Vibhanga did not get transmitted!
– It is too bad that Waharaka Thero is not there to ask.I need to take a look at it before commenting.
However, note that in the second question, “..viññāṇapaccayā nāmaṁ, nāmapaccayā chaṭṭhāyatanaṁ,..” instead of the usual “..vinnana paccaya namarupam, namarupa paccaya salayatanam..”
– There are 4 sub-Paticca Samuppada cycles running within each PS cycle. I believe that is what the Paticcasamuppadavibhanga described, per the above quote.
I have avoided this subject because it is too complex for most people to understand. And it is not necessary to go into such detail either.
It is very hard to get rid of one’s convictions.
– If you read the accounts given by many Goenka fans above in this thread that is quite clear.The bottom line is Vedananupassana is about “samphassa-ja-vedana.”
– Trying to attach that to bodily vedana cannot be justified in any way. Of course, one can contemplate the anicca nature of the body. That does not require one to undergo MORE suffering!
– This physical body is a “vipaka of the previous kamma” and will be subjected to various types of kamma vipaka due to kamma done in the past. The Buddha also experienced back pains, etc. He did not try to “meditate the way out of that suffering.” He had removed all lobha, dosa, moha without a trace, and thus had removed causes for suffering in FUTURE LIVES. But he had to bear the physical body and any kamma vipaka it is subjected to, until the death of his physical body.
– But this physical body can ALSO be subjected to kamma vipaka due to kamma done with unwise actions at any time, as I explained above.In any case, it is up to each individual to proceed the way he/she wants.
P.S. I am not saying that training the body to sit in the lotus position is a bad idea. If one does it gradually, the body will change to accommodate that position and then one can sit in that position comfortably for a long time.
– But we should not confuse that as a benefit of “meditation”.Yes. My statement there referred to ALL Buddhas.
The human lifetime is variable.
– Even though these days it is about 100 years, during some Buddhas it lasted many thousands of years. As I remember, it was quite long even during the time of Kassapa Buddha, who appeared before Gotama Buddha during this Maha Kappa.
