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Yes. You are correct Lang. They are both niyata micchā diṭṭhi.
It is too bad that many people don’t seem to be able to understand these critical issues.
This is why I have tried to explain this in several different ways.
– At least you and several other people seem to be able to understand the importance of these issues.This is why I also revised an old relevant post and posted it today:
“Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga – A Focused Analysis“Thank you for your input, Flower.
Yes. I don’t see how this legislation, even if passed, can affect the puredhamma.net website or any other website, let alone me personally.
It could affect bhikkhus and lay people who live in Sri Lanka. They could be subjected to various types of harassment.
– Let us see how the revised version reads. Hopefully, they will stop this nonsense altogether.
– As the Buddha admonished, mishandling Dhamma can be dangerous. I hope that there are enough sensible people within the government to stop the legislation at the proposal stage.Raj wrote: “it is inconceivable that the rupakkhanda has all the rupa that it has ever experienced (considering the countless lives one has taken in samsara) and very scary that there is every possibility of one being very pure at one stage and being completely polluted at some stage..”
Yes. Rupakkhandha includes RECORDS OF all past rupa. The same is true for vedanakkhandha, sannakkhandha, etc. But we don’t remember the five aggregates separately. A given past event has all five aggregates associated with it and we MAY remember them together (or some parts of them).
– But that does not mean we remember all that. Most people don’t even remember many things that happened even a few days ago.
– But some of those events mold our character/habits. That is how our character (gati) evolves over time. Of course, over long times our character can change back and forth many times (good to bad and vice versa).Just try to get the basic idea. The current series of posts are important:
“Basic Framework of Buddha Dhamma“1) Is Dharmayai Obai run by Ven. Waharaka Thero’s students?
– Yes.2) If this law gets passed are there going to be any problems for Dharmayai Obai?
– As I understand the Bill is under revision. We need to wait to see the revisions.3) Are there any other monasteries associated with Ven. Waharaka Thero?
– Yes.4) What are the names of monasteries that are trying to pass the bill?
– Many. Before Waharaka Thero, virtually all monasteries followed the “wrong interpretations”. They were just passing down the same distorted teachings that have come down for many centuries dating back to Buddhaghosa and even before that. One needs to spend some time to get a good idea of the degradation of Buddha’s teachings over many centuries: “Historical Background“As I understand, the idea came from a group of “traditional bhikkhus” who are losing their audience due to the increasing popularity of Waharaka interpretations. They are the established bhikkhus with name recognition and thus the politicians are afraid of them.
Sutta Central actually has objected to the proposed legislation. Even they can see the dangers of such actions by governments.
Daniel asked: “That means, he is speaking about lifetime of jati of physical body, right? The human bhava can be longer.”
– Yes. The lifetime of the physical body can be very different from time to time. It depends on the environment. It does not decline over time either. Instead, there are “waves” with lifetimes going up and down with time.
– I think one of those suttas says that the current lifetime of about 100 years will decline to 10 years and go back up to many hundreds of years before the next Buddha (Buddha Maitreya) is born.
– Yes. the lifetime at the time of Gotama Buddha was about the same as now. It may take millions of years to see any significant change.
– On the other hand, the duration of the human bhava depends only on kammic energy.After thinking about it, I think it may be a good idea to have a separate post on five hindrances within the new series of posts on “Basic Framework of Buddha Dhamma”
But the main point is that “thina middha” is a hindrance.
– On the other hand, thina and middha are TWO SEPARATE cetasika (mental factors).
– When they appear TOGETHER, that is a hindrance to comprehending Dhamma.The same is true for uddhacca kukkucca.
I have revised the post, “Key to Calming the Mind – The Five Hindrances” but will provide more details in upcoming posts.
Cubibobi and Daniel are quite right.
Gandhabba has a set of suddhatthaka, “smallest amounts of matter” in Buddha Dhamma.
– That is what cubibobi (Lang) referred to as “Rūpa as things made up of the 4 great elements can be considered “material”.Gandhabba is also a living being, specifically human.
– So, it has a rupakkhandha that includes all past rupa that it has ever experienced in the rebirth process. It also has expectations of experiencing certain rupa in the future, and those are also included in rupakkhandha. At a given moment, it may be experiencing some rupa, and those are also included. That is why rupakkhandha includes all past, future, and present rupa.
– The post that Lang (cubibobi) referred to above explains all this. But if one does not make an effort to read, and think and spend some time on this critical issue, one may miss out on other concepts that REQUIRE this clarification.Same clarification applies to vedanakkhandha, sannakkhandha, sankharakkhandha, and vinnanakkhandha. See, “The Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha)”
Of course, we cannot recall ALL that is in the five aggregates (rupakkhandha, vedanakkhandha, sannakkhandha, sankharakkhandha, and vinnanakkhandha).
– Most people cannot recall some events that happened even yesterday. But they may recall significant events that happened years ago, etc.
– Some children can recall some events in their previous life with a human body.
– Some yogis with abhinna powers may be able to recall several or even many past lives.
– A Buddha can recall anything in the past, not only in his lifestream but anyone else’s.P.S. just to emphasize: A memory has not only an imprint of that previous rupa but associated mental aggregates. When we recall a happy event in the past, for example, we recall those who were there AND also the kind of joy experienced.
– Same applies when recalling a song, a meal, etc. experienced in the past.Of course, gandhabba has the five aggregates.
As I wrote above, we are all gandhabbas inside “physical shells”.
– The physical body is inert (lifeless) when the gandhabba comes out.
– Try to think logically. How do people who have “out-of-body experiences” see and hear OUTSIDE the physical body. At that time they have only the “gandhabba kaya” or the “manomaya kaya”.
See, “Mental Body Versus the Physical Body“We are all gandhabbas with physical bodies.
– So, we can taste food, smell odors, and touch things (sexual activities included).A gandhabba without a physical body (while waiting to get into a womb) is human too.
– It just does not have a physical body that can do the above three things. Thus it does not generate kaya sankhara.
– But all cravings and attachments are there.
– It can still cultivate vaci sankhara and drastically change its personality (gati).
– Vaci sankhara generation does not require “speaking”, i.e., it does not require a physical body. That gandhabba can talk to itself and still generate vaci sankhara. See the post, “Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra“Question: “Does the gandhabba undergo a constant change from the time of conception till the death of the body
or does the change happen only at the time of death?”Gandhabba can undergo change both while inside a physical body or while outside (while waiting for a womb).
– Drastic changes in gandhabba can happen while inside a physical body (like us) IF we attain stages of Nibbana. If one attains the Sotapanna stage, then that gandhabba will never be born an animal or one of the lowest realms (apayas). Of course, the most drastic change would be to become an Arahant.Question: “You mentioned karmic energy, is the energy cumulatively formed for the next body, to take it to the next destination (animal, human, deva, and other forms)?”
For humans, kammic energy is acquired at any time, especially while in a physical body. Each of us has done many, many good and bad kamma in our past lives. All those can potentially bring in kammma vipaka.
– Of course, the strongest ones have the priority to bring vipaka.
– For example, if someone kills one of the parents, that kamma will lead to a birth in an apaya when that person dies. It will not wait to bring vipaka in a future life, because it is one of the strongest bad kammas (anantariya kamma).I am glad that you are getting the basic idea.
I just want to say a word about your statement: “The seed and tree analogy helped further. I have a son, and I can see that his parents, grandparents, and all our combined karmas contributed to his cause of existence.”
That last part is not quite correct. That may be because you may have gotten a somewhat wrong impression from my “tree analogy.”
In the case of your son, his existence is based MOSTLY on his own kamma.
– You provided the “chemical base” (zygote) for your son’s gandhabba to build a new human body.
– In the same way, your parents provided the chemical base for your gandhabba to build a new human body.
(The zygote’s role is explained in the post, “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception“)Now, when you are reborn a human again (assuming that your “human gandhabba” has more kammic energy left) another set of parents will provide the chemical base (zygote) to build a new human body.
– But at the end of the human bhava, you will transition into a different bhava, say a Deva bhava. That is when your gandhabba will make a “bigger transition.” That new Deva is not the same as the human gandhabba but without the continuation of the “human gandhabba lifestream” that Deva would not be born. That is what I tried to explain with the “tree analogy.”
– Sometimes the analogies are not as good as we hope. My apologies if it led to a misunderstanding.First, PLEASE provide a link to the post that you refer to. I believe the following is the post that you refer to:
“Key to Calming the Mind – The Five Hindrances”“1) I have seen this claim that Thina middha goes away at Sotapanna only from you so far. Do you have a source or some more information on it?”
You have not seen it discussed like that because most people do not know enough Dhamma to realize that. There may not be a Tipitaka reference for each and every issue. There are some things we can deduce based on other related evidence.
“2) Even a Sotapanna must have some laziness or drowsiness, right?”
– Your question is based on the assumption that thina middha means laziness/drowsiness. That is not so. Please read #9 in the post in question.I will try to expand on the above post to provide more info, probably after I finish the next planned post.
Thank you, Aniduan.
Yes. That clip gives the basic idea. Nicely done!Just to add a bit more. When a seed from a tree gives rise to a new one that second tree is not the same as the old one. But it would not have arisen without the first tree.
– That is, of course, a crude analogy.“But are javana citta also required for daily life like pushing open a heavy door..”
Yes. That is likely.
The difference is that if there is no lobha, dosa, moha involved in that effort, it will not have created “kammic seeds” to bring vipaka in the FUTURE.
– Whatever javana power created would be used for getting the job done at that time.But we need to keep in mind that mundane alobha, adosa, adosa also can have kammic consequences, i.e., create kammic energies that can bring vipaka in the future. See, “Six Root Causes – Loka Samudaya (Arising of Suffering) and Loka Nirodhaya (Nibbāna)”
– So, in a strict sense, only Arahant’s actions will be TOTALLY free of kammic consequences.
