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Yes. The “mind-door adverting” citta (M) corresponds to the “five-door adverting” citta (F) in Bhikkhu Bodhi’s book.
Those two cittas correspond to PD and MV citta in my post on citta vithi:
“Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs”But that does not resolve the issue. Does it?
This is a good question. I need to think about this further.
In the book, “Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma” Bhikkhu Bodhi has listed these cittas on p. 43. That is the same as what I have in the post.
– But I see the point that Tobias is making. Unwholesome/wholesome vipaka can come through the mana indriya (as dhammā).If anyone has any ideas, please post.
I think it is best not to mix Buddha Dhamma with concepts in Yoga or other Vedic teachings. As I have mentioned before, such teachings are distorted versions of the Buddha Dhamma.
– Even during Buddha Gotama’s time, such teachings were there coming from the Buddha Kassapa (the Buddha preceding Buddha Gotama). – A brief description of that at: “Arōgyā Paramā Lābhā..”
– As a reminder, there had been three Buddhas before Buddha Gotama on this Earth (i.e., during this Maha Kappa).Question 1: Mano sankhara arise automatically based on our gati and the particular sense-object (without conscious thinking.)
– Then if we start consciously thinking or speaking about the subject matter, those involve vaci sankhara.
– If we go further and take bodily actions, those involve kaya sankhara.
– It is important to understand the types of sankhara; “Saṅkhāra – What It Really Means”Question 2: What you are doing is exactly right. When negative/immoral thoughts come to the mind you need to shift the mind to the opposite of those (or at least to something different). That is the correct Anapanasati meditation.
“It seems like nirodha samapatti bliss of Nibbana is a higher grade / a step above Arahant-phala samapatti?”
-Yes.
Thanks, Lang, for posting the relevant links!
The short answer to the question, ” is there a limit like nirodha samapatti on how long an Arahant can stay in Arahant-Phala samapatti?”:
– No. There is no limit to how long one can stay in Arahant-Phala samapatti.
– That also holds for jhana samapatti. In a regular jhana, one goes in and out of jhana (and could be aware of the surroundings.) But in a jhana samapatti one is totally absorbed in the jhana, and only jhana citta flow uninterrupted.To add to Seng Kiat’s comment:
Citta vithi completely cease in Nirodha Samapatti.
– That is different from Arahant-phala Samapatti.Hello Raj:
The 16-step Anapanasati meditation is really for those who have attained the Sotapanna stage. I have not done a post on that yet. (See the P.S. below).
First, one needs to understand that Anapanasati is NOT breath meditation.
I have referred you to several posts on that earlier. Apparently, you don’t read what I suggest OR just read but don’t grasp the material. In any case, it is a good idea to read the posts in the Meditation section:
“Bhāvanā (Meditation)”
– The difference between Anapanasati and breath meditation is discussed in several posts there.It is a good idea to read that section from the beginning. Most people are looking for “fancy meditation techniques.” But we need to understand that Nibbana is “ragakkhaya, dosakkhaya, mohakkhaya” or getting rid of “greed, hate/anger/ignorance (of the Noble Truths).
– So, one needs to start at a basic level and build upon that basic foundation.By the time you have read the posts in that section, hopefully, you will understand how Ariya Metta Bhavana works.
Don’t worry. I understand that there is so much stuff out there and it is hard to figure out who is right.
– I cannot say I am right. But I do point out the inconsistencies in some stuff out there.
– It is up to each person to decide.My advice is to stop trying to read/listen to all that is out there. Just focus on one path for some time. If that doesn’t seem to be right then try another.
As far as English discourses by others, I think those by “Dharmayai Obayi” seem to be good. I have listened to a couple, and some people on this forum have commented that they are good.
P.S. Anapanasati is the SAME as Satipatthana. To put it another way, when one cultivates Anapanasati, one would automatically cultivate Satipatthana. That is stated in the Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118).
– It is just that cultivation of Anapanasati/Satipatthana would have optimum results AFTER the Sotapanna stage.
– You can read the posts on Satipatthana here: “Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta”
– But I would recommend going through the Meditation section BEFORE reading these posts.I had a bit of time this morning, so I listened to a little bit more of the above discourse. But I could not proceed beyond about 12 minutes.
I ran into the same issue that I mentioned above again. Around 9:55 Bhikkhu Thanissaro says “your consciousness gets MIXED UP with the consciousnesses of those parasites in your body”.
This shows a clear lack of understanding of how consciousness arises.
Our consciousness (and thoughts) arise in the hadaya vatthu (seat of the mind) located in our mental body (gandhabba).
– In the same way, the consciousness of a parasite arises in its hadaya vatthu.
– There is no way that they can “get mixed up.”
– A parasite in our physical body is no different from millions of external microscopic/macroscopic beings our bodies come to contact with.Of course, various external factors can indirectly INFLUENCE our consciousness.
– For example, if parasites in our gut cause digestion problems, that will affect our mindset, because we need to worry about that problem.
– But that is not any different from our mental state being affected by someone saying something harsh or causes bodily harm to us.This is why we need to be careful. That discourse seems harmless, and even sounds a “bit deep”. But it is based on a false premise. No one with even a bit of Abhidhamma knowledge will say such a thing.
– By the way, I had previously listened to a discourse by the same bhikkhu on Anapana meditation and that is also completely wrong. He describes that as a “16-step breath meditation”. But those 16 steps are NOT what the Buddha described in the Anapanasati Sutta.Please do not post any discourses by that bhikkhu in this forum. While some may have useful information, I don’t have time to listen to them to make sure.
I listened to the first part of it. That discourse does not seem to be relevant.
– What is the relevance of the consciousness of other (parasite beings) living in our bodies to our efforts to attain Nibbana? How are such living beings different from other living beings who live around us? Just because they live in our bodies does not make any difference.These are distractions. I will leave it. But please do not bring these irrelevant things to the discussion here.
The cells in our body are NOT different living beings. They are part of our physical body.
But there are small/microscopic living beings mostly in our gut, and even on the skin!
– So, it is possible that some of those living beings can cause problems. However, most in the gut actually help us in various ways. I am sure if you find more information on that by doing a Google search. But please don’t post them here.Pabhassara citta is the first stage in the 9 stages. So, it does not even get to the second stage of “mano”.
Even for an Arahant, a citta evolves to the third stage of “manasan.”
– But if the Arahant is in Arahant-phala Samapatti, that is when the Arahant experiences the pabhassara citta.All citta (except for an Arahant) go through nine stages. That happens within a billionth of a second. That applies to kamma vinnana or vipaka vinnana.
– Note that what we call vinnana is really the ninth stage, vinnanakkhandha. That is why we are able to recognize people, things, inatantly.“Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Nine Stages of a Thought”
Also, see, “Amazingly Fast Time Evolution of a Thought (Citta)”
For an Arahant, it goes through only the first three stages: citta, mano, manasan. (Because there is no attachment to anything there is no hadayan).
– But it does get into the final stage of vinnanakkhandha (an Arahant also remembers). I have not discussed such details there.We remember things instantaneously because all citta evolve to the vinnanakkhandha stage.
“Upon attainment of arahandhood, that human being will live his life till the end of his remaining current human jati or after 7 days, parinibana?”
That holds ONLY for a layperson who has attained the Arahanthood.
– But a bhikku with Arahanthood will live to the end of his natural life. We know that Ven. Ananda lived for 120 years, even though he attained Arahanthood at a young age. The Buddha himself was an Arahant and lived for 45 years after the Buddhahood/Arahanthood.If a layperson attains Arahanthood, he/she MUST become a bhikkhu/bhikkhuni within 7 days. That is because a layperson cannot “bear” the Arahanthood for more than 7 days.
