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I am not sure what Thanissaro Bhikkhu is trying to say.
If he is referring to the mindset of a living Arahant it could be misleading in the following way:
– A living Arahant would not generate “stressful mental feelings”. These arise due to “samphassa-ja-vedana”. Since an Arahant does not generate “samphassa-ja-vedana” his mind would be devoid of “mental stresses”.
– But even an Arahant will still feel body aches and is still subject to injuries, sicknesses, etc. We know that even the Buddha had those and Ven. Moggalana died a horrible death (beaten to death).After the death, an Arahant is not reborn. So, there would be no dukkha vedana or sukha vedana.
– That is the ultimate bliss, to be free of ANY suffering (any type of dukkha vedana).
– This is hard for many people to understand. They think “Nibbanic bliss” is a vedana. It is not. Nibbanic bliss is to be free of all suffering.
– Vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana, and rupa (all five aggregates) are not present in Nibbana (more correctly after the Parinibbana (death) of an Arahant).On the other hand, Thanissaro Bhikkhu could be referring to the mindest of someone who got into a jhana. I have not watched the whole video.
– Of course, jhanic states are the best types of “sukha vedana” available in this world.
– Yet, those are temporary. As long as one is in this world, suffering CANNOT be avoided.The bottom line is that any kind of “sukha vedana” one may experience via meditation SHOULD NOT be one’s goal. The goal is to stop ANY suffering, and that can be achieved only by stopping the rebirth process.
– Of course, those who attain jhanas on the way, do get such “jhanic pleasures” as a bonus.“. we can experience a consciousness (which is the deathless) which is blissful, boundless and unlimited and this consciousness is not part of the five khandas and nothing to do with the 5 aggregates.”
How can one experience anything without the five khandhas?
– Vedana is in the five khandhas.It is a good idea to write the comment in a word processor and finalize it before posting it at the forum. That way, one gets to think clearly about the question.
“cakkhusmiṁ” means “with regard to something seen”
“sati” is attention on it
“cakkhusamphassapaccayā” generation of “san” (lobha, dosa, moha) regarding what is seenIf one likes what is seen, that generates a sukha vedana (and one may crave it); if it is disliked one may generate a dukkha vedana (and rejects it); if one is not sure about what is seen (avijja) one may be confused about it (vicikicca).
The key is to learn about “samphassa”: “Search Results for: samphassa“
Your posts are OK. But as you wrote, it is better to remain silent in some situations.
– Talking about other people’s magga phala is of no use.Posts cannot be edited after about 30 minutes.
“My question is even though one may have failed to understand anicca and anatta due to wrong interpretations, but if one had faith in the Buddha and had engaged in studying and chanting
the suttas, contemplated on dhamma and the benevolence of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sanga, then they would have initiated the kusala mula paticca samuppada.”Sotapanna stage cannot be attained just by engaging in rituals like chanting etc. That only helps set the necessary background.
– Assuming so is a part of “silabbata paramasa” one of the 3 samyojana that need to be overcome to attain the Sotapanna stage.One needs to understand the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature. That means the unfruitfulness/danger in remaining in the rebirth process.
I just created a new forum, “Paṭicca Samuppāda, Tilakkhana, Noble Truths”
Ravi wrote: “Therefore, when we do not attach a value to anything, Avijja does Not arise,..”
That is true. However, “not giving value to worldly things” CANNOT be done just by willpower.
Rather, the mind WOULD NOT “give value to worldly things” once it starts comprehending the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature, i.e., that worldly things cannot be maintained to one’s expectations over long times (anicca); if one does then suffering will arise (dukkha), and thus one will be without refuge in the rebirth process (anatta).
– Of course, that is only one way to express Tilakkhana.In other words, “giving up” becomes a natural, automatic process with the true understanding of Tilakkhana.
– That is why the Sotapanna attainment will NEVER be lost. One would have understood the unfruitfulness/danger in attaching to worldly things.
– Of course, one will initially give up only immoral deeds seeking sensory pleasures. A Sotapanna would still enjoy “harmless sensory pleasures”. Giving up most sensory pleasures happens only at the Anagami stage.That is good to hear, Raj. May be I should open a new forum on Paticca Samuppada if you do have questions on it.
As I mentioned earlier, the new section is also focused on Tilakkhana and Paticca Samuppada: “Buddha Dhamma – Noble Truths, Paṭicca Samuppāda, Tilakkhana”
Thanks to TripleGemStudent for providing relevant information.
Anitya is not incompatible with anicca.
– It is just that there is no Pali word “anitya.” The Pali word for impermanent is “addhuva”. The Pali word for permanent is “dhuva” and the Sanskrit word is “nitya.”The Buddha said that world things have both anicca AND addhuva (impermanent) characteristics.
– See, “19 results for anicco AND addhuvo”
– The addhuva (impermanent) nature is very easy to see, as you wrote. That is why most people think they understand Buddha Dhamma but really don’t.It is the anicca nature that is hard to see. For that one needs to understand Paticca Samuppada and realize that things happen ONLY due to causes and conditions (and not according to one’s wishes/wants).
The other BIG problem is that most translators translate BOTH anicca and addhuva as “impermanent.”
– You can see that in the reference that I provided above.
– But here is a sutta where it is easy to see the problem with the translations:
“Nakhasikhā Sutta (SN 22.97)”In the beginning, there is the verse, “atthi nu kho, bhante, kiñci rūpaṁ yaṁ rūpaṁ niccaṁ dhuvaṁ sassataṁ avipariṇāmadhammaṁ sassatisamaṁ tatheva ṭhassati?”
It is translated as, “Sir, is there any form at all that’s permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, and will last forever and ever?” in the first translation.
In the second translation: “Is there, venerable sir, any form that is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and that will remain the same just like eternity itself?”
– So, you can see all three words permanent, everlasting, and stable mean the same thing: nitya (in Sanskrit) or dhuva (in Pali).They both mistranslate the CRITICAL Pali word “nicca” as “permanent”. That is the problem.
– Furthermore, the Pali words “nicca” and “anicca” CANNOT be translated to any language as just one word. That is why I have had to write so many posts on this subject.Thanks, Ravi.
Yes. The incorrect interpretation of anicca as impermanence and anatta as no-self resulted due to equating anicca and anatta in Pali to anitya and anatma in Sanskrit.
– Unfortunately, those two Sanskrit words have been incorporated into the Sinhala language over the past 2000 years.Therefore, the damage was done before the Europeans made those incorrect translations worldwide by using the newly discovered printing press. I may need to revise the post, “Misinterpretation of Anicca and Anatta by Early European Scholars” a bit to emphasize that point.
– That is because ALL Sanskrit sutras always use anitya and anatma.
– It is those Mahayana sutras that spread to many countries and influenced even Sri Lanka (Abhayagiri sector) well before the arrival of Europeans. Even the Mahavihara Theravadins adopted these two words over the years, and that is what I was taught growing up (anitya and anatma).
– Early European scholars (in the 1800s) made it well-established using the printing press (of course, that was a genuine mistake). Especially in the West, that is all people have access to (English translations with “impermanence” and “no-self”). It is mostly the puredhamma.net website that tries to point out this big problem to the English-speaking audience.
– It is appalling to see this “Sanskritization” has so much influence in Sri Lanka.Hello lodonyo,
I am glad that you did not take my answer the wrong way. Some people get upset when I point out certain things.
There are always two sides to issues like this.
1. On the mundane side, we need to live a healthy, comfortable life.
2. When we contemplate the rebirth process and the possible future suffering, we need to realize that any type of joy that we may enjoy is of limited duration.Those two MUST BE balanced.
– Without living a healthy, comfortable life, we will not able to spend time learning Dhamma and practicing.
– Think about a very poor person or a person who is not well most of the time. Their minds will be distracted handling issues related to those issues. They will not have a calm, peaceful mind that is required for learning/practicing Buddha Dhamma.But living a comfortable life does not mean unnecessary “enjoyments” like video games or watching TV all the time. Those are wasteful activities.
– In fact, once one gets used to living a simple life, one would not want to have anything to do with such wasteful activities. Peace of mind is infinitely better than having an agitated mind playing video games.
– When you start learning deeper aspects of Dhamma, you will want to spend ALL your time figuring out those subtle issues. You will not even think about “mundane pleasurable activities”. Once one gets traction, there is no turning back. I know that not only from my experience but also from the experience of several others who have made such drastic changes in their lives.Yes. As you have stated, understanding anicca/anatta nature will automatically get your mind off of such “pleasurable but meaningless activities.”
– There is a different type of “pleasure” associated with a mind free of craving for such “mundane pleasurable activities”. That pleasure is of different nature, but long-lasting.
See, “Nirāmisa Sukha”It is rare that another gandhabba can take over a living human body (possession).
– The person “being possessed” must have a weak mind and must willingly “hand over” the body to another gandhabba. Usually, that other gandhabba is a deceased person who had authority while living.
– For example, someone with a weak mind could be possessed by the gandhabba of a deceased relative. In Sri Lanka, there have been a few credible accounts.On the other hand, it is of the more common occurrence of the case Daniel mentioned at the end. It is possible for a gandhabba who had taken possession of a zygote to leave and for another gandhabba to take possession of that zygote.
– That may happen within several days or weeks of pregnancy.To learn about the zygote and gandhabba, see “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception“
“In the gadhabba state, there is probably no chance to be in the bhavanga state, and no such thing as “sleep”?”
A gandhabba very likely does not sleep. There is no need to sleep since there is no physical body that needs to “reset and recover” from the physical activities during the day.
– But the mind could be in bhavanga state if there is no arammana (thought object).Another thing to think about: A gandhabba inside a physical body is the same as a gandhabba outside.
– The only difference is that a gandhabba inside a body would not get a sensory input if the body is asleep.
– A gandhabba outside a physical body gets sensory inputs (only visual and auditory) without such a restriction.
