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Yes. Some gati (habits) do not have associated defilements. Arahants may have those.
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1. As I understand, you experienced a relationship breakup at the age of 17. Yes. That could have made you subconsciously think about the “anicca nature.”
2. Regarding this possibility: Yes. You could have had “Buddhist gati” to some extent at the time of birth, but it could have been “overtaken” by strong miccha ditthi anusaya.
3. Yes. One can have many gati. There can be “lobha gati,” “dosa gati,” “gati for liking a certain sport,” “gati to be attracted to a certain political view,” etc.
- However, the Buddha described only five broad categories of gati that lead to five broad categories of rebirth: Hell (niraya), the animal realm, the ghost realm, the human realm (manussa,) and the Deva realms. Here the six Deva realms and the higher Brahma realms are collectively called the “Deva realm.”
- All types of gati fall into one of those five “major gati.“
- See “Gati Sutta (AN 9.68).” The translator does not understand “gati,” but in this case, the title gives the correct idea.
- Those gati are removed gradually as one progresses on the Noble Path. An Arahant would have no gati left.
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It is correct that, in general, births are according to one’s gati.
1. One possibility is that you probably did not have the “Buddhist gati” at the time of your birth.
- It is possible that something happened around age 17 to change your gati.
- There are others too who are born into one religion but adopt another later in their lives. Some life events can change one’s destiny!
2. Another possibility is that you may have had “Buddhist gati” at the time of your birth, but a strong kamma vipaka overcame that effect.
3. A third possibility is that even though your “Buddhist gati” did not match the family, there may have been another strong gati that did match!
As you wrote, these are complex issues.
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Good work!
I will discuss some of those suttas in the upcoming posts. It is critically important to grasp some fundamental concepts to get a self-consistent picture. That is why I stopped revising a couple of posts on kama guna. It is necessary to discuss some relevant issues first.
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Hitting a child will not necessarily bring “bad kamma vipaka.”
- As always, it depends on one’s INTENTION.
- Hitting a child for a wrong action of the child (to discipline the child) will not bring “bad kamma vipaka.”
- However, one must be careful not to generate anger. Take a moment to reflect on the situation; it is not a good idea to act with anger. Also, explain to the child why he is being punished, and why he should not engage in such “bad actions.”
Using foul language is definitely not good. We must try to control our anger.
- If someone offends you, first try to figure out why they are doing it. It could be for a legitimate reason (that you are unaware of.) If you have done something wrong to offend that person, it is best to apologize.
- If you are convinced that you have not done anything wrong, it is still better to avoid confrontations. Some people do have bad intentions; one must ALWAYS try NOT TO associate with such people. Trying to retaliate will escalate the situation and will bring more harm to both.
See my comment #45773 in:
- Hatred cannot be overcome by more hatred, i.e., retaliation.
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The “sweetness in sugar,” etc., comes from “kāma saññā” and NOT from “kāma guna.” I will explain that in upcoming posts. Thanks for pointing this out, LDF!
- LDF’s comment is embedded above, #45806.
- I just revised my comment #20422.
Thank you.
It is an old post that needed more revisions. I updated it: “Expanding “Consciousness” by Purifying the Mind.”
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1. The Wikipedia article “Sanātana Dharma” says: “Sanātana Dharma refers to the “eternal” truth and teachings of Hinduism.
2. Buddha Dhamma is also an eternal Dhamma: It describes the world’s true nature. In the above verse, one such truth is that “That Dhamma (Buddha Dhamma with non-hatred or loving-kindness) accomplishes the end of ‘san’“ as I explained above.
3. Many of the teachings in the Vedas are mundane versions of the Buddha Dhamma taught by Buddha Kassapa, who appeared before Buddha Gotama. Of course, all Buddhas teach the same Paticca Samuppada Dhamma.
- As I have mentioned previously, many “Buddhist concepts” existed (in watered-down, mundane form) when Buddha Gotama was born. His mother had taken the “eight precepts” on the day the Buddha (Bodhisatta) was born.
Lang asked: “Under number 12, we have the phrase “sīti bhavissanti“, meaning “will be fully cooled down“. Does bhavissanti break down to “bhava” + “anti“?”
- It is a bit different.
- A related word is “bhavissati” meaning “bhava” + “assa” usually referring to “staying in a certain way” or “to live accordingly.”
- “bhavissanti” is plural.
- Of course, “sīti” means “cooled-down state,” another synonym for Nibbana.
“sanantano” in the above verse differs from “santana,” which is not a Pali word.
“santanano” can be interpreted as “leading to the end of “san” (i.e., “san” + “anta” where “anta” means “end”). Here “sanantano” means “end of ‘san’ is accomplished with“
Thus, the verse can be translated as follows:
“Hatred is never appeased by hatred
It is appeased only by loving-kindness
Non-hatred leads to the end of “san” (“san” + anti” rhymes as “sammanti“)
That Dhamma (Buddha Dhamma with non-hatred or loving-kindness) accomplishes the end of ‘san’“
To attain the ability to generate genuine and automatic “non-hatred,” one must understand and follow the “anicca nature” of this world. Mere adherence to “non-violence” as a “sila” cannot achieve genuine and permanent “non-hatred.” In other words, only the “Ariyakānta sila” of a Sotapanna Anugami or above can have the basis of that mindset.
I went through the following two posts carefully. Both of them need to be rewritten. I have trimmed the content in the two posts until I rewrite them.
Kāma Guna, Kāma, Kāma Rāga, Kāmaccandha
Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā)
- Thanks to TGS and Lang for pointing out the issues.
I am not sure why you keep quoting this particular translation. Strictly speaking, there is nothing wrong with the word-by-word translation. But it needs to be evaluated in the context of someone below the Anagami stage.
“Yaṁ kho, bhikkhave, ime pañca kāmaguṇe paṭicca uppajjati sukhaṁ somanassaṁ—ayaṁ kāmānaṁ assādo.”
Your quoted translation: “The pleasure and happiness that arise from these five kinds of sensual stimulation: this is the gratification of sensual pleasures.”
Then you wrote: “Would Lal sir or anyone here disagree with me or feel that I’m mistaken if I believe / said or taught based on what I just quoted in Pali and the English translation that sukha, somanassa, piti “can” or “does” arise from kāmaguṇa and the sukha, somanassa, piti that arises from kāmaguṇa is kāma assāda?”
- Yes. “..sukha, somanassa, piti does arise from kāmaguṇa.
- Yes. “..sukha, somanassa, piti that arises from kāmaguṇa is kāma assāda.”
But for both those to hold, kāmaguṇa must arise in the person. That does happen in the case of a puthujjana and even in the case of a Sotapanna/Sakadagami because both are not released from the kama loka.
- But that will not happen to an Anagami/Arahant since they are released from the kama loka, i.e., they will never be reborn in kama loka.
- But unless an Anagami or an Arahant is in a jhana samapatti or a phala samapatti, they will still have the “kama sanna,” as I explained above.
Anyway, I plan to discuss these issues in upcoming posts.
The problem is with the translation, not in the original text.
The Pali version: “Saddaṁsuṇātītikathā“
The verse “Samāpanno saddaṁ suṇātīti? Āmantā. ” is translated as “That one who has attained Jhāna hears sound.”
- Samāpanno here means “one who is in a samapatti.”
But not everyone who can get into a jhana can get into the corresponding “jhana samapatti.” That is explained in the following:
9. When a mind transcends the kama loka, it gets to the mindset of rupāvacara Brahmas. Those are the jhānic states. Lower Brahma realms have lower jhānic states and higher Brahma realms have higher jhānic states.
- But when a human enters a jhāna (especially without much practice), the mind does not stay continuously in the jhāna citta stream. It alternates between jhānic citta vithi and pañcadvāra citta vithi belonging to the kama loka. Thus, the yogi may see and hear while in a jhānic state.
10. With practice, one could be experiencing jhānā citta vithi continuously for many minutes. That means the yogi will not be aware of any sensory inputs through the five physical senses; thus, he will not see, hear, etc. During that time, the yogi is in a jhāna samāpatti.
The above two bullet points are from the post: “Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti.“
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1. What you need to focus on is the following:
- “kāmaguṇa” are not intrinsic to the external object (arammana) being discussed. Those arise in one’s mind.
- However, similar (but not exactly the same) kāmaguṇa arise in the minds of a given species.
2. Let me give an extreme example to make that clear.
- A pig likes to eat all sorts of garbage, including feces. That is due to “kama sanna” for pigs.
- Humans are repelled even seeing feces. That is because “kama sanna” for humans is different.
- So, I hope that makes it clear that our revulsion for feces is not intrinsic to the feces; in the same way, the “attractiveness” of feces for pigs is not intrinsic to the feces.
3. That “species-specific” kama sanna arises automatically for anyone belonging to a given species based on the “natural bhavanga” one is born with.
- That is why a living Arahant (not in Arahant phala samadhi) likely also tastes sugar as sweet and lemon as sour (per kama sanna of humans.) However, their minds do not attach to any arammana with greed or revulsion.
- Furthermore, an Arahant in Arahant phala samadhi is unaware of any external arammana.
- Thus, even though Arahants have removed kāmaguṇa from their minds (and would not attach to any arammana,) it is likely that they automatically generate kama sanna. Of course, this needs to be confirmed by an Arahant.
