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I have edited Gad’s post above to remove account information.
- Please refrain from asking for donations on this forum.
- It is a worthy cause to make donations to temples. However, it is not appropriate to make explicit requests providing information with account numbers, etc., on this website. That could lead to unforeseen complications.
- This website is for “Dhamma dāna,” i.e., we try to provide the correct teachings of the Buddha to the best of our capabilities and point to other resources whenever possible.
1. The “saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa” phases of the 10,000- star systems (meaning 10,000 planetary systems like our Solar system) are briefly described in the “Kappa Sutta (AN 4.156).”
- However, the terms “saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa” are wrongly translated in the English translation in the link as “contraction” and “expansion.”
- That does not refer to a “speedy separation” of “star systems or cakkavala.” It refers to the “destruction” and “reformation” of those “star systems.”
2. This is what I described in the post “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” per the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)” I have linked to the place in the sutta where the two phases (“saṁvaṭṭa” and “vivaṭṭa“) are discussed.
- Here “saṁvaṭṭa” refers to the phase where the Earth is destroyed together with the Sun and 10,000 other stars that are close by (but the higher-lying Brahma realms survive.)
- In the “vivaṭṭa” phase, the Earth is reformed together with the Sun and close by 10,000 other stars. Then those Brahmas come back to the lower-lying realms gradually, over time.
- That cycle repeats endlessly, according to the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).”
3. What the scientists are measuring is not the movement of a cluster of 10,000 star systems but the “expansion of space itself.” However, I believe this is a misconception. They must have made a fundamental error in their assumption.
- According to this model, even galaxies –with millions of cakkavala in EACH galaxy — are moving away from each other at a rapid rate. That seems to make no sense to me.
- This model is currently facing contradictions, especially with the recently launched Webb telescope, as pointed out in the videos above.
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Hello Tobi,
Yes. Buddha Dhamma is deep. But with an effort, one can understand, and it is worth the effort.
I briefly looked at your picture. It seems like a good idea but may need a bit of tuning. I will think about it and will let you know.
Regarding your question: “The question is whether the GANDHABBA can really see and hear when the human body does not trigger. Since Iddhi powers or the right Cittas must first be present or stimulated by Nama Loka/pañcupādānakkhandha.”
- No iddhi power is needed for the gandhabba to see and hear without the physical body.
- During heart operations, some people’s gandhabbas come out of the physical body. They watch the operation from the ceiling and later tell the surgeon precisely what happened during the operation. See “Near-Death Experiences (NDE): Brain Is Not the Mind.”
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Thank you, Gad.
I have started a new thread, “Jethavanarama Buddhist Monastery – English Discourses,” under the “General Forum.”
- Discourses of general interest can be posted there. That way, it will be easier to find them later on.
- If it is a specific topic, one can use a different forum (like Gad did.)
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Hi Tobi,
Some of what you wrote is not correct. But please continue with your efforts to get a consistent picture.
Here is one example. You wrote, “So, if we now assume that we no longer have a human body, we would not have the five senses that trigger the Vatthu Rupas and the Mano Indriya with which we can receive dhammā from the Nama Loka. We would only have the Gandhabba, i.e. our Bhava body, and the Hadaya with the connection to the Nama Loka. (That would still be the Rupa Loka level or Rupa Dhatu level)”
1. A gandhabba can see and hear while outside the physical body; it can also receive dhammā from the nama loka.
- But a physical body is needed to experience the “direct contacts” of taste, smell, and touch. (Compare that to seeing a tree, which does not need to make contact with the physical body directly. Light bounces off the tree and brings “an image of the tree” to the eyes. In the same way, sound from a car reaches your ears as vibrations that propagate through air, again not a direct contact.)
2. The essence of a human is the gandhabba inside the physical body. If the gandhabba comes out of the physical body, that physical body is like a piece of wood. It does not sense anything.
- The eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and nerves on the body’s skin can only help us detect external signals (sights, sounds, smell, taste, and touch). They receive those signals and pass them to the brain. The brain processes those signals to a form that can be understood by the gandhabba inside.
- If the gandhabba comes out of the physical body, it can still see and hear, but without the help of the physical body, it cannot smell, taste, or touch anything. That is the experience reported by those who had “out-of-body experiences”: “Mental Body (Gandhabba) – Personal Accounts.”
3. The following posts may help clarify:
“Gandhabba Sensing the World – With and Without a Physical Body” and “Our Mental Body – Gandhabba“
- A more advanced post is.”Brain – Interface between Mind and Body.”
4. It may be a good idea to have a summary page where you draw a picture and make notes to see how this complex process takes place.
- Let me know if you have any questions on what I wrote above.
Thank you, Yash and Gad!
1. I listened to most of the discourse. It is good. In particular, after around the 1-hour mark, Thero’s discussion of the “origins of the sensual pleasures” is excellent. As he explains it is made up by the mind. That is what I called “distorted saññā” in my recent posts.
- He discusses how “distorted saññā” arises. For example, the actual origin of a “taste” is a chemical signal that the brain receives. That signal is taken as a “pleasurable” by the mind. Based on that, the mind attaches with raga, dosa, and moha, and generates a “defiled saññā.”
2. The critical point here is that the receptiors in a pig’s tongue are wired differently compared to a human’s.
- Thus, while a a piece of rotten meat will taste great for a pig, it tastes yucky/disgusting for a human.
- In the same way, rotten meat or feces will smell bad for a pig, but a human finds that smell repulsive.
- It is just a matter of how sensory receptors are wired differently in a pig versus a human.
3. The second critical point is: That “wiring” is done by kammic energy.
- The “wiring” matches the “gati” of each sentient being.
- I will discuss that in upcoming posts.
4. Therefore, that discussion will help you understand my recent posts discussing “distorted saññā” and “defiled saññā.”
- See, for example, #8 and #12 of “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment” and #9 of “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā.”
5. There is nothing intrinsically “tasty” or “disgusting” in a piece of rotten meat or anything else!
- The same holds for all sensory inputs. A given object that looks desirable to one species may appear repulsive to another species. We don’t find grass to have any appeal, but a lush patch of grass looks appealing to cows. Even among humans, “beauty is in the eyes of the beholder” as the commonly used saying goes.
- How “distorted saññā” gives rise to “mind-made vedanā” may be hard to believe but that is the truth discovered by the Buddha.
6. Types of vedanā (including “mind-made vedanā”) are discussed in many posts : For example, “Does Bodily Pain Arise Only Due to Kamma Vipāka?” and “Vēdanā and Samphassa-Jā-Vēdanā – More Than Just Feelings.”
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1. It is human nature to defend one’s belief to the end.
- However, scientists are trained to follow the experimental evidence.
- Once there is enough undeniable evidence, they will start looking for a better explanation.
- We may have to wait for the next generation telescope to “see even further into the universe” and see stars much older than 14 billion years.
2. The other “domino to fall” will be the wrong belief that humans “evolved from the monkeys.”
- Things in this world NEVER go from “worse to better” naturally, i.e., without an effort. That is the “anicca nature.”
- If we want to make life better, we have to invent new technologies by spending time and effort. That is part of the “sankhara dukkha“!
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Hello Ravi,
Yes. We had the following discussion in the forum recently:
“The Big Bang May Have Never Happened?“
Also, you may not have seen the following post, which describes Buddha’s version:
Attaching to “pleasurable things” can be stopped in two ways.
(i) Think about the long-term “bad” consequences of such attachments, especially if such attachments lead to doing immoral or unwise deeds.
(ii) At a deeper level, any attachment takes a mind away from the “suffering-free state” (pabhassara citta). Furthermore, what we perceive to be “tasty,” “beautiful,” or “good-smelling,” etc. are all made up by our minds. It is what I call “distorted sanna” in the post below. Even though we cannot eliminate those sensations of tastiness, etc. (even an Arahant experiences them), by comprehending that mechanism, we can stop the subsequent attachment. That is what an Arahant has done to get to Arahanthood!
It could be a bit harder to see (ii) above. But if one can comprehend it, then it will make stopping attachments much more effortless.
- This is what I tried to explain with the new post “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā.”
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Hello Tobi,
“Then it should be 7 dhātus and not 6 dhātus, like in the table!
Namely, Mano dhātu (or manoviññāṇa dhātu), Patavidhātu, Apodhātu, Tejodhātu, Vayodhātu, Akasadhātu and Kāmadhātu, for an Arahant?”- The six dhātus include everything in the world. Kāma dhātu, rupa dhātu, and arupa dhātu (and kāma loka, rupa loka, and arupa loka) are three parts of the world.
- An Arahant belongs to Nibbana. However, the physical body (a vipaka) of the Arahant is still in kāma dhātu (but not in kāma bhava) until the death of that physical body.
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I have not translated the Ratana Sutta. But your post has a good enough description. Thank you!
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A couple of points to emphasize:
1. When we attach to a sensory input (ārammaṇa), it is pañca upādānakkhandha (or pañcupādānakkhandha) that arises, and NOT pañcakkhandha. This is a subtle point that I also did not pay attention to in the past.
- Therefore, in many instances, I may have written pañcakkhandha in some places where it really should be pañcupādānakkhandha. This is a common mistake that many people make. The tendency is to think that we attach to pañcakkhandha and then it becomes pañcupādānakkhandha. Even my teacher, Waharaka Thero, has made it sometimes.
- Keeping that in mind, you may want to read the posts in the section”The Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha).”
2. Both pañcakkhandha and pañcupādānakkhandha are “mental”: see “Pancupādānakkhandha – It is All Mental.”
- Also see “Manomaya Kaya (Gandhabba) and the Physical Body.”
3. The above can become clear easily with the comprehension of a series of posts I posted recently: “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind.”
- When a citta vithi ( series of thoughts) starts based on a sensory input (arammana), the mind starts with a distorted/defiled sanna (perception) and also wrong views (miccha ditthi). Even for a Sotapanna who has removed miccha ditthi, distorted/defiled sanna (perception) arises automatically.
- Thus, a “pure mind” (pabhassara citta) with pañcakkhandha arises only in an Arahant!
- I have discussed that in “Sensory Experience – A Deeper Analysis.”
- You can get to the posts in #3 later on. But I wanted to emphasize it to those who have read the website for a while.
