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Thank you, Gad.
- The post is “Abnormal Births Due to Gandhabba Transformations.”
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The following post is by Sammasambhodi Gami:
Following is an excellent sermon by most Ven. Waharaka Thero on Anapana Sati bawana:
(Huge merits to Mr. Janith Fernando Sir for the English translations)
‘Anāpāna-sati’ – a brief clarification
My note: Please post links like the above (English translations of Waharaka Thero’s discourses by others in this thread. Please do not open new threads.
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Yes. It is. That is the basis.
It will become even more clear if you try to connect births to gati, as I mentioned in my previous comment:
- “Bhava and Jati” arise according to “gati“: “Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control” and “Gati (Habits/Character) Determine Births – Saṃsappanīya Sutta.”
There are more posts on this critical aspect. See, for example, “Patisandhi Citta – How the Next Life is Determined According to Gati” and “Saṃsāric Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Āsava).”
- When someone died during the time of the Buddha, people used to ask the Buddha about that person’s rebirth by asking, “What was the birth, and what was the gati that led to it?” I must have mentioned some suttas with that quote within those posts.
- Kammic energy (or Paticca Samuppada) dictates how the physical bodies are tailored to generate “distorted saññā” according to the “developed gati” and the corresponding birth.
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I am happy you have grasped the key ideas regarding “distorted saññā.” I have made some slight changes to the format in your comment to make the points clear.
1. Your conclusion in #1 is correct.
2. Your conclusion in #2 is also correct. Even though suddhāṭṭhaka (atoms and molecules in the language of modern science) would not have “good or bad” qualities, feces made of them would be perceived differently by (the physical bodies of) humans and pigs.
- Kammic energy causes human bodies to produce a “bad smell” for feces because human birth originated from “good kamma.” Furthermore, if a human eats feces, he/she will get sick. The human physical body arises that way due to kammic influence.
- On the other hand, a pig’s body can thrive on eating feces, and a pig likes the smell of feces. That is a manifestation of the “birth matching the gati that led to it.”
3. So, your conclusion in #3 is correct.
- In another example, a lion’s birth is according to “vicious gati.” It is possible that the kamma that led to the birth of a lion was a violent crime like killing another human.
- On the other hand, engaging in moral deeds leads to birth as a human or a Deva. Cultivating (Ariya or anariya) jhana leads to the birth of a Brahma.
- “Bhava and Jati” arise according to “gati“: “Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control” and “Gati (Habits/Character) Determine Births – Saṃsappanīya Sutta.”
P.S. I just revised the topic of this thread to “The Connection Between Akusala and Rotten Births.” That matches the discussion better.
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I wanted to clarify why I declined to answer this question. Sometimes, having a general idea about the external world is good. In a few suttas, the Buddha gave an overview of the universe. He said our solar system is one of an uncountable number of planetary systems (cakkavala.)
- He also taught that in a “loka vinasaya” (destruction of our solar system), a cluster of 1000 planetary systems like ours gets destroyed. That matches modern science, saying that when a star gets old and blows up in a supernova, many nearby stars (planetary systems) are also destroyed.
- I mentioned that in the introduction to Agganna Sutta: “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)“
However, it does not make sense to examine the finer details of the universe. Doing so will consume all our energy. We must mainly focus on understanding how pancupadanakkhadha (i.e., suffering) arises and working to stop that process.
- The following is a picture of our Milky Way galaxy. We can see (with the naked eye) only a couple of thousand stars, but there are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy. Furthermore, there are about an equal number of GALAXIES in our universe. Thus, there is a whole galaxy for each star in our galaxy. It is truly mind-boggling.
- Will we ever be able to investigate even a fraction in our lifetime?
My description applies to any planetary system with living beings. Each has 31 realms associated with it.
- Although scientists have not yet found a system outside the solar system, there are countless others in the universe.
- It is not easy to find life outside the Solar system. The closest “planetary system” is more than four light years away. That means it takes over four years to travel to that system, EVEN IF a spaceship travels at the speed of light. The fastest speed by a spacecraft is 163 km/s, compared to the speed of light of 300000 km/s.
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An arupa Brahma has a hadaya vatthu made of a suddhāṭṭhaka.
- Arupa loka means there are no other rupa made of suddhāṭṭhaka.
- However, ANY living entity has to have a “hadaya vatthu,” which is the “seat of the mind.”
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I just updated the post “Anidassana, Appaṭigha Rupa Due to Anidassana Viññāṇa.”
- Also see “Anidassana Viññāṇa – What It Really Means.”
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The Puredhamma post in question is “Anidassana, Appaṭigha Rupa Due to Anidassana Viññāṇa.” This is a deep concept.
1. We can get some insight into the issue by looking at what led to the question in the “Kevaṭṭa Sutta (DN 11).” I have linked to the marker @67.4, where the Buddha refers to the following question asked by a bhikkhu (by the name Kevaḍḍha) at an earlier time: “Where do these four primary elements cease to exist without anything left over, namely, the elements of earth, water, fire, and air?”
- In many suttas, the Buddha refers to Nibbana as “loka nirodha.” Some people interpret “loka nirodha” as the “end of the world,” i.e., where the whole world made of the four primary elements ceases to exist.
- As we can imagine, that is an impossibility. How can not only the Earth but all the stars, etc., in the world cease to exist?
- P.S. Also, even if one looks for a realm without four primary elements, that is not possible either. Even in arupa loka, each Brahma is made of a suddhāṭṭhaka. ANY living entity has to have a “hadaya vatthu,” which is the “seat of the mind.”
2. So, with that misconception, Kevaḍḍha bhikkhu (who had cultivated abhinna powers) went to see various Devas and Brahmas to get an answer to his foolish question. No one could answer and he finally went to see the Mahā Brahmā as stated @ marker 81.2. Mahā Brahmā admitted that he did not know that answer and directed the bhikkhu to the Buddha. @marker 84.1, the sutta states that the bhikkhu went go back to see the Buddha and asked the question.
- @ marker 85.10, the Buddha says he should ask the question in a different way to get a sensible answer.
- “Loka nirodha” for a given person is when the four primary elements find no footing in that person’s mind.
- In other words, this is when one stops generating “namarupa” in the mind, which can lead to rebirth. As we know, any existence is associated with a hadaya vatthu, which is made of the four primary elements AND also kammic energy. When one attains Arahanthood, the “namarupa” formation stops. And that is when the four primary elements find no footing and the rebirth process stops. i.e., “loka nirodha.“
3. So, you may want to read that post again and see whether it is clear. There is more information at “Nāmarūpa Formation,” in particular, the last two posts in that section.
- I wanted to set up the background. That may help to ask questions a bit differently.
- Vinnana is infinite all the time. At Arahanthood, all that happens is the stopping of “kamma vinnana,” where “kammic energy” for future existences is created via “namarupa” formation. A living Arahant experiences “vipaka vinnana,” which is also infinite, which refers to “vinnana dhatu.” Of course, at the death of the physical body of that Arahant, a new existence is not grasped, and that is the “loka nirodha” or the “end of suffering.”
- In other words, the “loka” with all types of stuff made of the four primary elements cease to exist for that person (Arahant.)
4. This is a complex issue, but also a critical issue, at least for those at or above the Sotapanna stage.
P.S. Yes. The formatting has issues. But I can fix those, and I have fixed them in your comment. Don’t worry about it in the future.
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Above my last comment, Alfalco asked two questions.
1. “Just one further question – where on this earth/realm does the mental body ‘reside’?”
- They are living right beside us. But we cannot see them.
- Their “bodies” have very little “matter,” less than even an atom in modern science. We cannot see an atom even with a standard microscope. That is how “subtle” or “fine” it is. That is why no one could see that woman’s gandhabba in the above video.
2. “Also, why is the ‘gandhabba’ concept not more of a major factor in Theravada school despite the fact that there’s scriptural support for it. It seems to be incredibly important to understanding rebirth and the workings of samsara.”
- Theravada school has also gradually become “ritualistic” (like Mahyana/Tibetan schools) in the sense that logic or reasoning is no longer taken into account these days.
- If someone logically considers the rebirth accounts and the fact that it is very difficult to get a human life, those two cannot be explained without the concept of gandhabba, i.e., a human can exist without a physical body. In ALL rebirth accounts, there is a gap of a few years between two consecutive births as a human.
- Those two births have the same gandhabba, i.e., it is the same human that is reborn with a different body only after a few years. That is why another birth with a physical human body is possible within a few years.
3. Anyone who does not believe in the concept of gandhabba: Please explain how two “human births” are possible within only a few years without the concept of gandhabba.
- The rarity of human birth is fully explained with many Tipitaka references in “How the Buddha Described the Chance of Rebirth in the Human Realm.”
- We also know that many babies die within a month or even a few days. Does that mean his/her “human existence” ended only after such a short time? There are so many contradictions!
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It is critically important to understand the concept of the “mental body” (gandhabba) before being able to answer many questions about human life.
- I know that it is an alien concept, especially in Western societies. However, evidence is emerging that it is real. The most relevant confirmations come from the accounts of patients whose “mental body” comes out of the physical body and they could see while being outside the physical body.
The following video is on one of such accounts by a physician:
Notes:
- In most such cases, the patient recovers brain function after a while, and that would be the end of the story. However, the patient’s gandhabba came out of her body in the above case.
- The woman’s gandhabba may have come out of the paralyzed body at some point. It was in the room when Dr. Greyson came and followed him to the other room where her friend was. The gandhabba was watching and listening to the conversation between her friend and Dr. Greyson.
- Once medical treatment restored her brain function, she could recall the conversation and tell Dr. Greyson about it in great detail. She not only heard but also saw the full details. That is why she noticed the stain on Dr. Greyson’s tie!
- So, she was able to see with her gandhabba body. Can there be any doubts about that?
- The gandhabba coming out of the physical body is not a common occurrence. However, he mentioned (maybe in another video) that about 10% of all people have experienced such an OBE. It is more common when patients undergo heart operations because the hadaya vatthu in the mental body overlaps the heart in the physical body.
The above is extracted from the post “Distorted Saññā Arises in Every Adult but Not in a Newborn.”
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Thank you, Gad!
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I presume that you have not read that many posts on this website. Your above answer clarified that for me.
1. It is not a sudden increase in humans but an increase in humans with physical bodies. That population has increased mainly because the conditions to support a large human population (with physical bodies) have improved over the past few hundred years.
- A large pool of humans is in the gandhabba state (i.e., just with the “mental body”); they are waiting to be born. That is the actual population of humans, which is probably in the hundreds of billions. Only 7 billion have been born with physical bodies at the present.
- That gandhabba population also keeps changing because of transitions among various realms.
2. When a Deva or Brahma dies and becomes a human existence, they aren’t reborn with a human body right away at that moment.
- For example, when a Deva dies and is born a human, only the mental body (gandhabba kaya) appears on Earth. That gandhabba may have to wait several years before being pulled into a “matching womb” and subsequently born with a physical body.
- As the economic conditions of the countries in the world improve, the human population increases.
3. In the example of #2, that human who was born with a “mental body” possibly has a lifetime of many thousands of years. During that time, he/she can be reborn with a human body numerous times. That is why there are so many rebirth accounts from all over the world. Some children can recall their last life born with a physical human body.
- Are you familiar with such rebirth accounts?
4. I want to see how much you know about the above before going into more detail. This is a complex subject that requires some background in Buddha Dhamma. For example, were you aware of the “gandhabba (mental body)”?
- Let me know your thoughts/questions on the above. We can proceed from there.
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